When So-Called Trolls are Useful

I’ve been asked by a reader to boycott a regular commenter, the infamous anti-gun Mikeb302000. Joining something like this isn’t something I’d take lightly. For those of us who remember the infamous Jadegold, he’s certainly not the first trollish anti-gunner we’ve had around these parts. So I am reluctant to join in such a boycott.

Someone like MikeB won’t change his mind about the issue, but an undecided looking up information on a gun policy they hear about in their own state might come across the very posts where he comments. Refusing to discuss the issues makes him seem like the rational one, regardless of how absurd the comment might be. As an activist, it’s that person I want to truly engage, not MikeB. The chocolate/vanilla argument from Thank You for Smoking at the 6:21 mark is a great example:

“I’m not after you, I’m after them.” Perhaps more importantly to reaching the undecideds both online and in real life is that every once in a while, MikeB does raise a fair concern I’ve heard from those who don’t understand firearms and gun control. It’s always useful to keep your mind sharp for these sometimes unexpected arguments, and if I can learn from him while honing my skills to speak to the middle, then I’ve gained far more than he has by spouting off in his corner of the internet. Even if we all realize we won’t convince MikeB, people who are serious about the issue need to keep their debating skills sharp. Hiding our heads in the sand & living only in an echo chamber is what got us to this place initially. In the past, it was hiding out in the gun clubs and just sitting out of the political game. Nowadays, it is all of that, plus creating new echo chambers online.

So when it is trolling?

I’m not going to argue that MikeB isn’t a troll at all. He does seek attention, particularly to his blog. But what upstart blogger doesn’t want attention? I don’t blame those who simply don’t want to promote him, or acknowledge him. I’m not going to suggest MikeB isn’t trying to play certain angles in hope of comments and links, and it’s up to each blogger whether or not to send him any. But for me, I’ll continue to engage him when he raises useful points. As long as he respects my comment policy, and respects other commenters, he’ll be welcome to post here.

I would suggest that folks consider the anti-gunners here as “useful idiots”. Use their arguments to make sure your skills to engage the undecided are still sharp.  I worry greatly about our community becoming an echo chamber. There was a time in the blogosphere when we condemned such an attitude. We used to pride ourselves on our openness to debate. I will ignore MikeB when I believe he’s making shoddy arguments, but as they say, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and even MikeB can raise good points that deserve to be addressed from time to time. Anti-gunners aren’t necessarily a waste of time, even if you’ll never convert them. “I’m not after you, I’m after them.”

Jerry Brown Helps Us Out

He’s pissing off a lot of gun control advocates in his state. Rumor is he’s considering running for governor again. I’m not going to go so far as to say he deserves our support yet, but I have to admit, at this point, it would be hard to do worse than California’s had for the better part of two decades. Jerry Brown would appear to at least be willing to acquiesce to you being armed when the suede-denim secret police come for your uncool niece.

WNYC Article on MAIG

This article shows how folks in one Pennsylvania town got their Mayor out of MAIG, and also gives you an idea of the states that are involved in this dance we are beginning with this new gun control group. Gun control groups are even getting rather bold in their pronouncements:

But after the recent elections, it’s gun control advocates who say they came out ahead. One group, Ceasefire Pennsylvania, says all 12 of the candidates it endorsed won re-election, despite opposition from the NRA. By contrast, gun rights groups couldn’t name any members of Mayors Against Illegal Guns in Pennsylvania who lost re-election.

That’s interesting that they claim that, because NRA did not get involved in any of these local Mayoral election in this past cycle. The only action NRA has taken against MAIG so far is mailings to some towns to inform them that their mayor is a member of a gun control group.

But for gun control advocates, the mayors coalition has become a useful, and well-funded ally. Paul Helmke is the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. He says mayors deal directly with victims of crime and police departments, so they have not just the bully pulpit, but moral authority as well.

“I really feel it’s been one of the most significant things to help affect the debate on gun violence prevention in a number of years,” Helmke says.

Hey, any group that gets the Paul Helmke endorsement can’t possibly be a gun control group, right? They see the potential. Let’s just hope other gun owners do before this group starts achieving real legislative victories.

UPDATE: Video here.

More Media Coverage of VPC Google Research

So says the Gainesville Sun. Scroll down to “A deadly license” at the bottom.

According to a study by two gun control advocacy groups, the Violence Policy Center and the Freedom States Alliance, 77 people and eight law enforcement officers have been killed nationwide over two and a half years by concealed weapons license holders. In Florida, 14 people, including two police officers, have died at the hands of license holders.

What they don’t bother mentioning is that Florida issues 657,000 concealed carry licenses, and in 2008 only revoked 643 licenses. That’s a revocation rate of 1/10th of one percent. Overwhelmingly, this is a very law abiding subset of the population. But they won’t mention that. No. Doesn’t fit with the narrative.

Expansion of Lead Ammunition Ban Into Arizona

So reports Scientific American:

This year, the CBD filed a lawsuit to institute a similar ban on federal lands around the Grand Canyon in Arizona, where about a third of the world’s wild California condors live. The CBD argues that the U.S. Department of the Interior’s Bureau of Land Management and Fish & Wildlife Service are violating the Endangered Species Act by allowing the use of toxic lead ammunition in the condor’s protected habitat.

Of course, the big, bad, mean NRA is getting in the way, but they are saying NRA’s science isn’t strong enough:

But is the NRA’s science strong enough? “The science is in on lead in wildlife and other carnivores. There’s no debate,” says the CBD’s Miller. “The only debate is over what makes sense from a policy point of view. There are alternative ammunitions, which are becoming more widely available, and their cost is coming down. Switching from lead is no problem.”

Beyond doubt and debate eh? This sounds really really familiar. For anyone wanting to see the research done by Dr. Saba, you can find it here.

Tracking the Blood in the Streets

This editorial could have been written by our friend Mark in the comments of a previous thread. Perhaps we are seeing a new tactic against concealed carry, to claim it’s just dangerous, and then say there’s no way to prove its safe because the evil gun lobby won’t let us see who has licenses. Good to see VPC’s allies in the media willing to help this meme along.

Support for McDonald from Mordor

Chuck Michel is reporting that:

Today, 34 California District Attorneys and 8 Nevada District Attorneys joined a consortium of other “friends of the court” to file an “amicus” brief in the United States Supreme Court in the cases ofMcDonald v. Chicago (08-1521) and NRA v. Chicago (08-1497). Both cases ask the Supreme Court to hold that the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution stops state and local governments from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms, just as the Supreme Court has already held that the Second Amendment stops the federal government from infringing on that right.

For those of you who are curious, the California AGs who are signing on are Will Richmond (Alpine), Todd Reibe (Amador), Michael Ramsey (Butte), John Poyner (Colusa), Michael D. Reise (Del Norte), Vern Pierson (El Dorado), Elizabeth A. Egan (Fresno), Robert Holzapfel (Glenn), Edward Jagels (Kern), Ron Calhoun (Kings), Gilbert Otero (Imperial), Michael R. Keitz (Madera), Robert H. Brown (Mariposa), Meredith Lintott (Mendocino), Larry Morse (Merced), Gary Woolverton (Modoc), George Booth (Mono), Tony Rackauckas (Orange), Brad Fenocchio (Placer), Candice Hooper (San Benito), Michael Ramos (San Bernardino), Bonnie M. Dumanis (San Diego), James Willett (San Joaquin), Christie Stanley (Santa Barbara), Gerald C. Benito (Shasta County), Larry Allen (Sierra), J. Kirk Andrus (Siskiyou), David W. Paulson (Solano), Carl V. Adams (Sutter), Greg Cohen (Tehama), Michael Harper (Trinity), Phil Cline (Tulare), Gregory Totten (Ventura), and Jeff Reisig (Yolo).

The Nevada Attorneys General who signed on are Arthur E. Mallory (Churchill), Todd Leventhal (Esmerelda), Russell D. Smith (Humboldt), Hy Forgeron (Lander), Robert Auer (Lyon), Cheri Emm-Smith (Mineral), Jim Shirley (Pershing), and Richard Gammick (Washoe)

In addition to that, there are several California police organizations who have also signed on. California has fifty-eight counties, so this represents 3/5ths of California’s total counties, including some of their more urban counties. Nevada has sixteen counties total, so 1/2 of the counties in Nevada have signed on, including Washoe county which contains Reno and Tahoe. It’s actually kind of disappointing more didn’t sign on in Nevada.

Quote of the Day

From the comments at Richard Fernandez’s blog:

I have always been of the view that carbon based AGW is not proved. It could be true, but the evidence hasn’t been put forward. It would be ironical if it were actually true. But who would believe it now? What these “climate scientists” should have done is conducted the inquiries transparently, with open source code for their models and openly available data for their factbase.

Then everyone could have followed along where ever it led. But somewhere someone got greedy. The prospect of being the Master of the Universe danced like sugarplums in their heads. The Ring grew and took possession of their minds and ate them out. Finally, climate science became a climate carnival. And now the geek just ate the chicken.

Scientists are fallible people too, and no process involving people is going to be immune from politics. Take scientific claims with a grain of salt. The scientific process is much like our government. Theoretically, it’s a very well designed system, with lots of checks and balances to help ensure the best results. But when you fill the system with people, it never works as well as it would seem to in theory.