Kudos to Weer’d for uncovering the police report of the arrest in the Zimmerman case. I had not previously come across this. The offense description in this case was Homicide, Negligent Manslaughter, Unnecessary Killing to Prevent Unlawful Act. The statue in question is here. But that crime is still subject to the qualifications here. In other words, if you don’t fall into the exceptions in the latter section, you’re guilty of the crime in the previous section.
Author: Sebastian
Crowdsourcing: No Duty to Retreat States
With most of the media reporting on duty to retreat, or no duty to retreat, without much of a clue what they are talking about, it’s worth noting a few things about the law. For one, this is not a new concept dreamt up by the NRA in the last several years. The tradition goes far back. Eastern states tended to be pretty divided, but Western states, including California, almost universally did not include any retreat requirement into their laws.
This Wikipedia article examines the law on a state by state basis, and does a better job with the topic than any hysterical and poorly research article I’ve seen put together in the media. But it does miss a few states. Here is a more complete list of states that do not include a Duty to Retreat requirement in their law. I am going to ask readers to help me expand this list, or provide links to sources that show the states have no duty to retreat. I’m also including an asterisk next to states that have removed duty to retreat through recent legislation.
- Alabama *
- Arizona
- California
- Colorado
- Florida *
- Georgia
- Idaho
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Kansas (previously no duty to retreat was common law)
- Kentucky
- Louisiana *
- Michigan *
- Missouri *
- Montana *
- Nevada
- New Hampshire *
- New Mexico
- New York
- North Carolina *
- North Dakota *
- Oklahoma *
- Oregon
- Pennsylvania *
- South Carolina *
- South Dakota
- Tennessee
- Texas
- Utah
- Virginia (common law)
- Washington
Let me know what you can add from your own states, and let me know whether the change was in the last 10 years, or whether the state has traditionally maintained a no-duty-to-retreat law. I’m looking to augment what I already have, as my information here is incomplete, and I don’t have time to research all 50 states. If you can let me know if any states need asterisks, I’d like to know that. In all cases, please include links to source materials.
We Finally Hear From Dan Gross
Over at the Brady Campaign Blog:
In fact, much more so than any of the shills they had promoting their agenda in their big budget propaganda campaign, George Zimmerman is the embodiment of the gun lobby and its vision for America.
George Zimmerman is the NRA.
Man, and we thought Helmke was full of shit? This really takes the cake. For days I’ve had people who represent this much vaunted “gun lobby” commenting here essentially agreeing that Zimmerman sure does look like someone who’s deservedly going to head before a jury, and Brady’s new prez says, following in the great and effective tradition of CSGV, that we own him.
Brady better hope Gross is a better fundraiser than he is a bullshit artist, or they’re in trouble. Out of the gate, I’m not terribly impressed.
Impractical Calibers
Tactical Tupperware takes a look at his top five. I was amused by this one:
.45gap  So I honestly don’t know why this round exist. My only guess is that at some point the boys at Glock took marketing advice from Apple and decided to be propitiatory because it seemed cool. However I think if you bought a gun in .45gap then your membership card in the gun snob club gets stamped lifetime member.
Our state police adopted the Glock 37 in .45 GAP. As a taxpayer, I would have accepted either the .40S&W or the .45ACP. Hell, I’d even take the .357 SIG if they really wanted to go for a boutique cartridge. But the fact that they’ve adopted the .45 GAP tells me whoever is in charge of procurement for the PA State Police is too susceptible to marketing literature and sales pitches, and not concerned enough about wasting our money.
The Washington Times Chimes In
In defense of gun rights, the National Rifle Association has jumped into the argument over Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black child who was killed in Florida.
Today, the NRA published a statement saying it will continue to support the “Stand Your Ground†self-defense laws that it has helped push through the legislatures of several states.
I was surprised that NRA would have an opinion on the Zimmerman case, since they typically stay out of individual cases. After looking around on their web site a bit, and not seeing anything, I contacted NRA’s Public Affairs Director, and asked if they had released a statement. Apparently no. There has been no statement. The article continues:
The NRA ought to be careful about adopting Zimmerman as its poster child for responsible gun ownership and usage. Responsible gun owners know the limits of their right to carry a weapon and are well aware that they cannot use deadly force indiscriminately, without reasonable, justifiable cause. Sane and upstanding gun owners also know they shouldn’t take their guns to go pick a fight then expect to use a self-defense law as protection.
That has certainly not been the case for NRA, and I don’t think it’s been the case for the gun owners NRA represents either. To sum up the general consensus of the gun blogosphere community, as far as I’ve been able to see, it would be the description of Zimmerman as a racist cop-wannabe mall ninja who’s mall ninjary and cop-wannabeism got a 17 year old needlessly killed.
But being that we gun folks tend to come to our activism out of a desire to see our Bill of Rights protected, we tend to like our governments restrained, and look more favorably on due process, and abstract concepts like innocent until proven guilty. We look less favorably on mob justice, trial by media, and suppression of individual rights due to public outcry. In short, don’t mistake a respect for the rule-of-law, of restrained government, and due-process for support of Zimmerman. Those are two separate things. We believe everyone in this country is entitled to presumption of innocence, regardless of color or creed, or how heinous the accusation. These are bedrock principles of American law, and it’s been real disheartening for me to see how readily they are disrespected by an angry public.
I should note that in conclusion, I’d like to think better of the Washington Times than to think they’d publish something that makes up facts like NRA support for Zimmerman, out of whole cloth. I thought they had higher journalistic standards than that.
Another Self-Defense Case In Florida
This one didn’t involve a gun, but a knife. This is another case where I think the application of the 2005 law, in this case by a judge granting the defendant immunity, Â is questionable. There’s a few things here worth covering:
The law also bestowed immunity from prosecution and civil suits on people who are deemed to have acted in self-defense. The Florida Supreme Court has said that the question of whether the immunity applies in each case should be decided by a judge, not a jury.
Fresh News About Florida
The LA Times laments the shoot first mentality. The New York Times also predictably keep piling on for changing the self-defense laws in Florida, even though they are roughly the same in New York. Robb has a pretty good response on the Florida law from an actual lawyer who isn’t a stooge of the media that can be expected to parrot what fits the media narrative.
Apparently the pressure is getting to be too much because the sponsor of the 2005 self-defense law is having second thoughts, and suggesting maybe the law needs some tweaking.
I want to echo something Robb mentioned in the comments:
I’ve already seen in on my fellow Floridian message boards – This spells the end of Stand Your Ground. Oh Whoa is Us. Bullshit. If you’re truly worried about politicians using this event to pass restrictive laws, then damn it, STOP WHINING ON THE INTERNET AND CALL YOUR REPS. Let them know that you will not stand for them to use a ONE TIME tragedy to violate rights. Put 1/10th of the effort into calling and writing them that you do bitching on message boards and blogs, and they’ll get the message.
One thing gun owners are very good at is wallowing in victimhood. We’re as bad as any other community that hasn’t always good a fair shake in that respect. But if you want to counteract the horror that the media is about to unleash on the progress we’ve made, then you need to step up and let representatives know how you feel. The sponsor of the Florida law thinks it is misapplied here. There’s a very good argument that is, in fact, the case. Probable cause is not that remarkably high a standard.
As I have mentioned previously, given the evidence I have seen so far, I am not at all supportive of Zimmerman’s actions that night, and I believe a 17 year old teenager died needlessly. But I am equally unsupportive of trying and convicting people in the media. I’ve been disgusted by the flagrant disrespect paid to due process of law that’s been occurring over the past several days in both the media and in public forums. The authorities are convening a Grand Jury to examine the facts independently. The DOJ will be looking over their shoulder. The State of Florida has taken over from the local yokels. The system is working. It is time for patience, and breathing room for investigators and prosecutors to do their work.
A Real Colt M4
I guess Colt got the idea that, perhaps upon hearing the term M4gery, that it was time to offer the public the real thing. That is, if the real thing were semi-automatic and had a 16 inch barrel. But hey, it says “M4 Carbine” on the receiver, and it’s got a pony on it, and who doesn’t want a pony?
Actually, I almost got a Colt AR-15 carbine once. It was in 2004, right after the ban expired, and a local gun shop had a few samples marked “Restricted: For Law Enforcement and Government Use Only.” I thought it would have made a nice souvenir for what once was and never should have been. I’m actually kind of sorry now I didn’t get it, because I haven’t seen them since.
New Name for the Brady Campaign?
Uncle coined the term Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Ownership. Now he’s using a different one, “The Brady Campaign to Cling to Relevancy.” I guess the real question is how bitterly they are clinging? I’d say very. While the previous one is still certainly true, I think the newer one is probably more true.
What Was Common Law Self-Defense?
Lots of people are bandying “common law” around in regards to self-defense, especially suggesting that Florida’s laws are a departure from common law. Anyone who is suggesting this is ignorant of what the common law on self-defense really was. First, a brief history of what common law is. Common law is essentially judge made law, or customary law, that is built up by precedent over time. For many years, much of the laws of England were done this way. The Romans brought us the idea of civil law, where everything is written down by statute. Self-defense traditionally was a common law justification for certain crimes such as murder, manslaughter, and assault. These justifications were, for a long time, not codified in most states. Codification didn’t generally begin until fairly recently, and some states, such as Virginia, still use common law self-defense. So what was common law self-defense? To understand that, we go back to the authority on the common law, which is William Blackstone, who wrote Commentaries on the Laws of England. But to summarize:
- Under common law, it was legal to use deadly force against a person who was committing a felony. Not only was it legal, it was considered a civic duty to do so.
- It was legal to use deadly force against anyone breaking into a house at night. It was not considered acceptable to do this during the day, unless robbery was a motive.
- Duty to retreat only applied, under common law, to someone who was defending himself against an assault in an “affray” or “brawl,” and with the exception that there was no duty to retreat “in sudden and violent cases; when certain and immediate suffering would be the consequence of waiting for the assistance of the law.”
As the common law evolved in the United States, Americans never had a particularly liking for the duty to retreat, and it worked its way out of the common law in many states, including New York, who included no such requirement from common law when they codified their self-defense statutes. Many states, when they codified their self-defense statutes, ignored common law and essentially created this duty even when presented with someone committing a felony. Pennsylvania, for instance, does not allow for deadly force to prevent commission of a felony. That was dropped during codification. But the idea that the common law created a duty to retreat in all circumstances is just plain false. Many of the “stand your ground” or “castle doctrine” laws more closely match common law practices than do statutes of states that require retreat even when faced with a felonious attack.
One can see that even with the recent Zimmerman case, that whether a duty to retreat would apply under common law would hinge on whether “certain and immediate suffering would be the consequence of waiting for the assistance of the law,” rather than some absolute duty, as some have made it out to be. Also worth noting that in Blackstone’s time, law enforcement was considered a duty of every citizen, and people were more civically minded back then. With the advent of professional policing in the 19th century, individual citizens have become more removed from looking out for the safety and well-being of their own communities.
George Zimmerman, a lone, self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, would not have been in the tradition of Blackstone’s time. But neither would a neighborhood full of people who hear someone screaming for help, and don’t bother to act until a shot is fired.