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Clamoring for Relevance

The Brady Campaign is working on a petition to tell Starbucks to ban guns in their stores, and I have to give them an A for creativity with the icon for the campaign.

Do they really want to play the grassroots game with us? I appreciate them telling me that California Pizza Kitchen banned guns. I was not aware. Now I have one more reason not to eat their overpriced, shitty pizza. I’ve never even heard of Peet’s Coffee, is that anything like Tweek’s Coffee?

UPDATE: I notice this only refers to open-carried guns. Does this mean the Brady Campaign is OK with concealed carry now? Or are they trying to scare corporations with the idea if they don’t ban guns people will openly carry them into their establishments?

UPDATE: This campaign would appear to be the result of this article at ABC News, so it would appear indeed that the Brady Campaign is egging corporations to ban guns in their establishments by threatening with the prospect of open carry.

Corporations should understand this: there are a lot more of us than there are people who will sign that petition, and if you want to keep our business, you’ll respect our rights.

36 Responses to “Clamoring for Relevance”

  1. Flighterdoc says:

    Yes, I’d like a G21 with my Vente Latte no foam…

  2. ctdonath says:

    Replace the “?” with “!” and you’ve got a nifty logo.

  3. Pete says:

    Its really telling that Brady Co. is pushing for non-legislative action here. They realize they can’t ban open carry via the legislature, so they try to hassle those who passively allow it.

    What can we do to oppose them on this? Write Starbucks corporate and tell them we love their coffee and not to listen to the Bradys?

  4. Or, like it has been suggested before, they could just post signs which say, “No Unlawfully Carried Firearms Allowed” or something similar. It would pacify the feeble-minded pants-wetter, while causing those of us who carry concealed to chuckle and say, “I see what you did there.”

  5. Rev. Paul says:

    It’s also only a matter of time before the Starbucks corporate behemoth files a copyright infringement suit against the Brady Bunch for that logo.

  6. Jay says:

    I disagree with pacifying anyone who wants to ban the display of lawful firearms. In increments, by not calling this Brady Bunch attempt anything but laughable, we give them another day to make plans.

    Starbucks, in my humble opinion, makes awful coffee.

  7. Weer'd Beard says:

    And for such places with non-binding signage, you can simply ignore it.

  8. mobo says:

    They own the store. Let them ban red tee shirts if it makes them happy. Nothing they can do will change the fact that their coffee tastes like burnt monkey ass and that our economy will no longer support their exorbitant prices.

  9. Greg grueninger says:

    Myself, I don’t have that kind of income to go to starbucks, But I asked my friend Mickey Mouse to go and sign their form to let starbucks know who is on their web site signing to ban guns at starbucks. hahaha. Just my way of saying we know it won’t work. You wonder if they just count the #’s of people that sign it or realy look at the list??

  10. Carl from Chicago says:

    Yep. Write Starbucks. Brady’s want to make this an issue reliant on their few members? Fine.

    http://www.starbucks.com/customer/contact_forms.asp?nav=3f

  11. Mikee says:

    My credit union uses a Texas-noncompliant “no guns” sign consisting of a silhouette of a handgun with a red circle&bar over it. I asked the manager about it, and she reported that even though it is noncompliant with the TX law, the facilities manager insisted it stay up.

    My interpretation: makes customers with hoplophobia feel better, and customers with CHLs ignore it.

    Starbucks won’t go the same route, however, because they know that a noncompliant sign won’t eliminate their liability if someone faints in their store at the sight of a handgun. They will either cave to the Bradys or continue to allow all law abiding customers to enter freely.

  12. Matthew Carberry says:

    Considering Starbucks is originally a Northwest phenomenon, that out here in the West we have better coffee available on every block (you Easterners have no idea about coffee convenience) and every state out here allows carry either open or concealed or both I’m not sure how well a corporate ruling will play with the managers on the ground.

  13. Andy B. says:

    While a touchy-feely-image outfit like Starbucks has been standing up for our gun rights, elsewhere a sporting goods dealer has been working to undercut them:

    A Pennsylvania gun club has begun a letter writing campaign to Dick’s Sporting Good’s stores protesting what it describes as their enforcement of draconian New Jersey anti-gun laws in Pennsylvania. According to Andy Barniskis, Legislative Committee Chairman for Falls Township Rifle and Pistol Association in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, a number of club members reported Dick’s Sporting Goods stores in Pennsylvania demanding proof of state residency from customers purchasing handgun ammunition, and refusing ammunition sales to New Jersey residents. Bucks County is located right across the Delaware River from New Jersey, and a number of club members are New Jersey residents who legally purchase handgun ammunition in Pennsylvania for use at the club’s Pennsylvania ranges. In New Jersey, purchasers of handgun ammunition must show their state Firearms Owners Identification cards. In Pennsylvania, handgun ammunition buyers must only prove they are adults. According to Barniskis, “We consider it an insult to gun owners for a retailer to enforce a foreign state’s anti-freedom legislation, when neither our state’s nor federal law requires any such thing.” The following sample letter has been provided to club members and other regional gun owners, and club hopes the initiative to protest what appears to be Dick’s Sporting Goods corporate policy will spread.
    ——-
    Edward W. Stack
    Chairman & CEO
    Dick’s Sporting Goods
    300 Industry Drive
    RIDC Park West
    Pittsburgh, PA 15275

    Dear Mr. Stack:

    It has come to my attention that Dick’s Sporting Goods stores in Eastern Pennsylvania have been enforcing New Jersey’s anti-gun laws on customers seeking to purchase handgun ammunition. Purchasers of handgun ammunition have been asked to prove their state of residence, and sales of handgun ammunition have reportedly been refused to New Jersey residents. I regard such practices as an insult to both Pennsylvania and New Jersey residents. Pennsylvania gun owners have fought too hard resisting draconian anti-gun laws like New Jersey’s to accept having them imposed by a retailer in Pennsylvania. What’s more, New Jersey residents purchasing handgun ammunition in Pennsylvania, for use at gun clubs or other venues in Pennsylvania, are violating no law, and refusing to sell ammunition to them because of New Jersey’s anti-freedom laws implies suspicion of criminal intent on their part. It is insulting, and it is not the appropriate role for a retailer. It has further been alleged that local management of Dick’s
    Sporting Goods stores in Pennsylvania have told ammunition customers inquiring about the policy that “It’s the law.” Dick’s management or staff members who make such statements are either deliberately lying, to shift the blame for a shameful corporate policy, or are unacceptably ignorant of Pennsylvania and federal law. It also has been alleged that enforcement of the policy has been tinged by allegations of racial profiling, which would imply civil rights violations. Please advise me as to the corporate policy of Dick’s Sporting Goods regarding the enforcement of extra-legal anti- gun policies in its stores, and whether such practices will cease in the immediate future; or whether I, my family, and friends should seek other, more respectful retailers in Pennsylvania for our shooting and outdoor needs.

    Sincerely,

  14. Xrlq says:

    I’ve never even heard of Peet’s Coffee, is that anything like Tweek’s Coffee?

    Au contraire, it’s quite good. It’s also headquartered in the Bay Area; Berkeley, I think. So I’m disappointed but not surprised.

  15. Ronnie says:

    Last year, it was rather difficult to find even one box of 7.62×39 ammunition at any of the Dick’s Sporting Goods locations in PA that I normally shopped at. This was a big inconvenience for those times when I just wanted to get a cheap 20-round box of Wolf for myself rather than buying it in quantity through the online retailers, and then waiting for the shipment, or when I could not make it to one of the gun shows in PA.

    So, there was one time that I just happened to be passing by a Dick’s Sporting Goods when I was over in NJ somewhere on business. So, I went in this store, and sure enough, this place had plenty of 7.62×39 ammunition, including the cheap Wolf brand – probably because nobody in NJ owns the guns made for it.

    The one and only employee kid who I could find to get me a box of cheap Wolf ammunition then told me that I needed to show him firearms ID card before he would open up the locked cabinet. I told him that I am a PA resident and there is no such thing in PA.

    I then told him that I had been told several times before, by people who ought to know, that the NJ firearms ID card requirement only applies to handgun ammunition, but Mr. $8/hour would not budge, so I left.

    I still say that punk kid at this Dick’s Sporting Goods in NJ was wrong about the ammunition law in NJ. I really felt like taking up this issue with his manager, but I really didn’t have the time for this nonsense while it was happening.

  16. Ian Argent says:

    Inspired. And, yeah, Starbucks is probably going to have a few lawyers earn their retainer over the logo. But, in the end, pointless. Boycotss, by and large, don’t work when you DO have grassroots.

    And I’m not sure Starbuck’s woudl use it as an excuse; given their spokeperson’s statement

  17. Sebastian says:

    I think someone needs to find out from Dicks whether it’s actually corporate policy, and what the reason is for it. I suspect Dicks requires ID for age verification purposes, and much like supermarkets in states where you can buy liquor in supermarkets, have a policy of carding everyone, because they don’t trust their minimum wage employees to make age judgements. FFLs aren’t strictly requires to verify age, but it does risk their FFL if they sell to someone under 18 (21 for “handgun” ammunition). Dicks holds an FFL. Ironically, they’d have to worry less about ammo sales if they didn’t. The rest may just be a case of the local manager being completely ignorant of the law.

  18. Stephen says:

    Unfortunately, the Brady’s are definitely trying to ban all carry of all types in all stores. As they say:

    “It’s everyone’s right to sit in a restaurant or coffee shop with their families without intimidation or fear of guns, either concealed or openly carried. ”

    And then they say that in “most states” they only need to put up a sign.

    I don’t see them getting very many signatures — but it’s an internet petition so who knows how it will be twisted. Something we need to be careful of … but how much money will they lose if all the CCWers in CCW states quit buying coffee?

    I may start drinking coffee just so my boycott means something.

  19. Ian Argent says:

    TGIFridays has/had a corporate policy (honored in the breach a lot) where they card EVERYONE; and a couple of the other american bistro chains do as well. If there’s a federal law restricting sales of ammo, I would expect Dick’s to put in such a policy for their own protection.

    NJ’s requirement for logging handgun ammo practically means ALL ammo sales must be logged; and someone will make a handgun chambered for almost anything… OTOH, Discks shouldn’t be checking me for an NJFID for ammo purchase. Methinks the minwage drone got the ammo and firearm requirements crossed (I *can* buy a longarm in PA, but the clerk has to check my FID and one or the other of us has to fill and file a Certificate of Eligibility back to NJ – that’s also federal law; both states’ laws must be followed for long gun purchase interstate)

  20. bob r says:

    Starbucks is headquartered in Washington State. Where we’ve had licensed concealed carry for close to 50 years and one of the highest rates of permit holders in the country. Where open carry is legal just about everywhere — and always has been. Where I’ve never (as in ever) seen a “no guns allowed” sign on _any_ type of business. Where numerous alternatives to Starbucks abound.

    I don’t think this will get much traction.

  21. bob r says:

    Starbucks is headquartered in Washington State. Where we’ve had licensed concealed carry for close to 50 years and one of the highest rates of permit holders in the country. Where open carry is legal just about everywhere — and always has been. Where I’ve never (as in ever) seen a “no guns allowed” sign on _any_ type of business. Where numerous alternatives to Starbucks abound.

    I don’t think this will get much traction.
    By the way, really good work. Can’t wait for the next one!

  22. Letter to Starbucks regarding carrying guns in their stores:

    I see that the Brady Campaign is trying to limit where I can drink coffee by encouraging Starbucks to ban legally carrying firearms in their stores. Thanks to them, I now know that California Pizza Kitchen and Peet’s Coffee, which have banned firearms, are off my list of businesses I will visit.

    I hope Starbucks will not cave to their nonsensical demands. Do they expect a bad guy to think twice about a shooting spree because there is a sign on the door? Do you not think that would embolden him knowing that no one inside can resist?

    If you will not let the good guys carry guns, what are you going to do to protect me from the criminals? Bury your head in the sand like the Brady Campaign and pretend that bad guys do not exist?

    If you feel compelled to act, try a sign that reads, “No Unlawfully Carried Firearms Allowed.” It will have the same effect on crime (none) and only cause clear-headed people to chuckle.

    Whether I carry a gun or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I will not do business with companies that ban firearms. For one thing, it is the safest place for bad guys to go.

    -Robert Harder
    ====
    I encourage the clear-headed among us to write to Starbucks urging them not to cave to this nonsense. -Rob

  23. Carl from Chicago says:

    Robert:

    It’s good you sent a letter. However, and if I were at Starbucks, the tone would be offensive. They haven’t done anything to you, yet the letter reads as if they have or as if they will or if you are telling them what to do.

    How about:

    “I am sorry the Brady Campaign are needlessly criticizing you. Thanks for a continued policy that comports with state and federal law. You have my business.”

  24. Carl from Chicago says:

    PS … no offense meant by that critique.

  25. Sebastian says:

    I agree with Carl. The Brady folks are our opponents here. No need to antagonize Starbucks, as they are currently holding out. What you want to do is thank them for holding out… for now.

  26. Jill says:

    Dick’s Sporting Goods is no supporter of the second ammendment. They do not sell hand guns nor hand gun accessories either. Corporate philosophy will have them not selling any guns or ammo soon enough.

    I don’t shop at Dick’s, and recommend all sportsman cease supplying them money, as well. Will that do anything? Yes, it’ll allow them to become the golf/backpacking/biking/camping establishment they truly want to be. Give them your money if you want; my money goes to the local gun dealer.

  27. Sebastian says:

    Jill,

    What makes you specifically think Dick’s is anti-gun? Just the fact that they don’t sell handguns? There’s a reason they might not want to, namely that selling handguns brings into play numerous state level laws that add additional requirements, which they would then need to develop training materials for employees in how to follow the laws in those respective jurisdictions. Most jurisdictions don’t restrict the kind of long arms that Dick’s sells, so the process is going to be the same, or very similar for the vast majority of Dick’s locations.

    That said, I don’t shop at Dick’s for gun stuff that often, so they wouldn’t lose much business from me. But I’d like to know what evidence you have that they are anti-gun?

  28. Ian Argent says:

    Hell, they sell firearms and ammo in NJ – where the state laws are HARD – I believe Walmart stopped long ago.

  29. Ronnie says:

    Walmart has been very particular about which of its stores will stock things such as firearms ammunition and BB guns. I have noticed that the Walmart stores in South Philadelphia and in Baltimore, Maryland, do not carry any of these items in the sporting goods section. This is probably either because of Walmart’s desire to maintain good relations with that powers that be in those two respective cities, or to be in compliance with local laws. The Walmart stores in suburban and rural ares of both Maryland and Pennsylvania generally sell both firearms ammunition and BB guns.

    New Jersey is just a whole other ballgame when it comes to Walmart – I doubt that any Walmart stores in the Garden state sell firearms ammunition, and definitely none of them would ever sell BB guns, since that state’s laws considers them to be the same as actual firearms.

  30. Ian Argent says:

    Which is my point, really. We know Walmart is unconcerned by gunnies – witness their signing up with MAIG and that no Walmart in the Garden State carries firearms.

    Whereas in NJ Dicks carries longarms, ammo, gun supplies. In addition to paintball markets and spring-powered airsoft (the way NJ firearms laws are written, both conceivably could be firearms (airguns and spring guns expelling a projectile with enough force to injure) – though I don’t understand their reluctance to carry gas-operated airsoft). And it’s not exactly a small chunk of the local store to me, either.

  31. Carl from Chicago says:

    I think that at times, people over-react and over-reach. For example, there was a Cabela’s in Illinois that although they carried nearly all manner of firearms … just because they didn’t have .50 BMGs out for sale they were considered “anti-gun” by some. Give me a break. The extremes seem to be the loudest voices, sometimes.

  32. Jill says:

    I didn’t write that Dick’s was anti-gun anywhere on this site. I wrote that they were not a supporter of the second ammendment, in response to post #16. There is no requirement for them to be a supporter of anything, for that matter. They take the path of least resistance in any given situation to achieve their goal of turning a retail profit. Good on them. My bigger point was that I don’t don’t spend my gun dollars at ANY big retail store; they’ll sell out the gun owner as quickly as they sell out of the blue light special.

    I have a personal history with Dick’s that makes me especially dislike their attitude toward the gun owning public, and it is no coinkidink that they only sell Fudd guns.

    No conspiracies; no over-reach, no over-react. Support your local gun dealer or he won’t be there one day.

  33. Sebastian says:

    Sorry for reading more into that than you intended Jill.

  34. Ian Argent says:

    And my point is that, in NJ, they aren’t taking the path of least resistance. They jumped through a LOT of hoops to put in a store near me that can sell guns, less than 5 years ago. NJ has no less requirements to be permitted to sell longarms than firearms.

    In point of fact, I buy some ammo from them every so often; and that’s about it. I’ve bought no firearms from them and haven’t really considered doing so. Next up on my do-want list are (in no particular order) an EBR, a SUB2K, and a .22 bolter. Only one of which I can get from them, and I suspect I can get a better deal elsewhere.

    But their target market *isn’t* Caleb and his pistolgamers – it is the hunters. Why should they try and break into that business?

  35. Jill says:

    Last post on this topic, I didn’t mean to hijack the thread.

    Ian,

    Dick’s didn’t have to try and “break into that business”. They bought into it with the Galyan’s purchase and immediately liquidated the handgun business.

    Enjoy the weekend.

  36. Ian Argent says:

    Fair enough, and enjoy your weekend too. And my apologies – I let my enthusiasm for vigorous debate run away with me.

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