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Outing

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has been outing a number of gun bloggers on its Facebook and on Twitter feed today, including yours truly, Thirdpower, AntiTango, and Linoge. While I have never taken great pains to hide my true identity, given that I’ve generally kept a policy of removing individual, personal information if posted, especially if it was from someone on the other side, I find stooping to this tactic particularly childish and petty. CSGV posted fairly detailed information about Linoge. This to crosses the line between political opposition and something quite nasty and personal.

I should note to CSGV that this is a line you probably do not want to cross with us. There’s an old saying that you don’t want to pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel, and we buy ink by the freight car full compared to you guys. Google has become a powerful tool, and this would not be a pretty fight. I believe it’s best not to go here. We all have a lot of personal information we’d prefer to not be broadcast all over public forums, on both sides. So I am going to call for a truce, at least when it comes to releasing personal information.

53 Responses to “Outing”

  1. Gene Hoffman says:

    I wonder if CSGV has thought through that most private investigators are pro-gun?

    An “outing” war started here in California once. It was in bad taste on both sides, but lets just say that it made the pro-gun side stronger and left the anti gun person who was the primary target – well, she got a different role and foreswore the gun issue completely.

    -Gene

  2. The Second Anonymous says:

    Kinda like in Somalia, before they started the genocide, radio hosts would broadcast the personal information, including addresses and family of the famous people from the other tribe, so the mob would go there and kill the whole family.

    I think the Brady bunch learn a lot from these genocidal maniacs, and continue this fine tradition of intolerance and hate.

  3. The Second Anonymous says:

    I also notice that on their comment, they claimed the author of wall on the city “harass” women. Isn’t that slander of some sort. They are really pushing the boundary here.

  4. Heather says:

    Yeah, I saw that “harass women” comment. Complete BS.

  5. Weer'd Beard says:

    Everybody on their side is Jadegold, just some conceal it better than others.

  6. David says:

    The best part is that they are about to cross the line to criminal activity, harassment, and they don’t seem to know what the outcome of that will be.

    My name is David Walsh. I live in Exeter, Pa. I’m 38 years old.

    Anonymity is over rated.

  7. RT: @CSGV Those who’ve been harassed by #insurrectionist “An Englishman,”(Common Sense)real name’s Thos Paine. #Treason http://bit.ly/ksNm0t

    We will win, and we’ll bring the funny too. There’s nothing worse than losing a battle and then getting laughed at too. CSGV’s about to find out.

  8. Linoge says:

    Unfortunately, the information they posted on me is public knowledge here thanks to the Tennessee government never bothering to have sealed the HCP records… And thanks to the Commercial Appeal’s privacy-invading database of the same.

    That said, I find it very important / interesting that Ladd had all the space in the world (unlike Twitter’s 140 character max), yet he could not be bothered to post a single example of his specious allegations. Of course, we know why this is the case – no such examples exist – but it belies his hateful claims.

    Second Anonymous raises a valid point though – this is libel, but is it actionable libel? Or, at least, would it be worth talking to a lawyer over, with the knowledge that Ladd considers “disagreeing with” to be “harassing”?

    And, unfortunately, truces require both parties to agree to and abide by them… I guess today will tell.

  9. Andy says:

    They are idiots for doing what they are doing, but I don’t recommend anybody doing the same to them. Wrong is wrong. If gun bloggers take the high road, it will just make the anti-gun forces look worse.

    Oddly enough, I use to work with the guy who was the first person ever sued for libel over the Internet (met him many years after the fact).

  10. ZK says:

    Is the name and town of residence known for the CSGV’s directors and spokesman? I don’t see why it shouldn’t be.

  11. Tam says:

    I love how the outed you as a professional operative from the NRA-ILA. Now where’s my wheelbarrow of cash? ;)

  12. divemedic says:

    So what? They out you. What are they going to do? Show up at your house to beat you up?

  13. mobo says:

    Show up at his front door and challenge him to a duel!

  14. Stephen says:

    “Kinda like in Somalia, before they started the genocide, radio hosts would broadcast the personal information, including addresses and family of the famous people from the other tribe, so the mob would go there and kill the whole family.

    I think the Brady bunch learn a lot from these genocidal maniacs, and continue this fine tradition of intolerance and hate.”

    I think you mean Rwanda, but your idea is right, and sickening. Joan Peterson even said “Thanks for this, we need to be tracking these people”. Oh really? Why would you need to track us? Do we need to start wearing little yellow stars that say “gun owner” on our clothing too, Joan?

  15. Sebastian says:

    “Show up at his front door and challenge him to a duel!”

    It could happen. You know how much Ladd likes Alex Hamilton.

  16. With a couple of quick searches using non-governmental, publicly available sources, I was able to find out Ladd Everitt’s home address, how much he paid for his house, the market value of it now, when he bought it, the name of his wife/partner/significant other, and pictures of his residence.

    And this was all for free. Who knows what other information I could have found for the investment of a few dollars to one of the database companies.

    I do not plan to publish this information as I agree with Sebastian that it should remain private and I don’t wish to stoop to Ladd’s level. However, Ladd should reconsider his campaign of harrassment of gun bloggers as some one else might not be so circumspect as I am. That old saying about people who live in glass houses applies to him.
    I

  17. Sebastian says:

    “They are idiots for doing what they are doing, but I don’t recommend anybody doing the same to them. Wrong is wrong. If gun bloggers take the high road, it will just make the anti-gun forces look worse.”

    I have no plans to publish anyone’s personal information. I’m just saying this is an ugly game they are playing.

  18. Sebastian says:

    John:

    Within the space of two minutes I managed to find the same information. I did not release it because I’m not really interested in playing this juvenile game. But I do want the folks at CSGV to think about that for a second. Two minutes is all the time I’m willing to spend. There are others out there who will dig far deeper than me, as you mentioned.

    It’s just better not to go here for all parties involved.

  19. David says:

    The game they are playing is one of desperation. A quick look at their facebook page shows few comments and fewer likes. There are only a dozen people who actually comment. Their support is swirling round the bowl and they know it.

  20. Linoge says:

    Called it. Ladd just spurned your truce offer, and rather rudely at that.

  21. Sebastian says:

    Ladd waved his dick around so he didn’t appear to be giving into “intimidation.” If he stops posting people’s personal information, as far as I’m concerned this is over.

  22. Sebastian says:

    And really, as far as I’m concerned, what he did with you, Linoge, was where it really went over the line. I could care less if he tweets my real name and links to information NRA publishes publicly on me. I think posting people’s age, their town, that’s crossing the line. I don’t care if it’s publicly available, it’s still shitty.

  23. Stephen says:

    “The game they are playing is one of desperation. A quick look at their facebook page shows few comments and fewer likes. There are only a dozen people who actually comment. Their support is swirling round the bowl and they know it.”

    Right you are, David. Their page shows a record breaking 2,400 fans. The NRAs facebook page shows over 900,000. What would Charlie Sheen say? Winning!

  24. I disagree with the “take the high road” approach. Credible deterrence requires punishment in the event of a violation of the standard norms of behavior. Bullies depend on you following the “rules” when they violate them.

    I’m cool with the idea of telling them that they should stop, and leaving it here. If they don’t, I am in favor of whatever is the internet version of “pein forte et dure.”

    They should respect the standard norms of civilized behavior. I don’t care why the respect those norms, whether it be common decency or a healthy fear of the consequences.

  25. wfgodbold says:

    Is the harassing women bit due to not putting up with the insanity japete keeps spouting?

    That’s all I can think of.

  26. Andy says:

    BTW, have you guys complained to Facebook? They might not appreciate CSGV’s antics either, though for different reasons.

  27. @wfgodbold: um, yeah, what did you think they were talking about?

    Let me explain it to you. Because in the Leftist mindset the victim is the highest status one can attain, any attempt by us to question japete’s victim status is a sort of “status theft.” Her victim status is as important to her as a child would be to the rest of us.

    By denying her victim status, we are fundamentally questioning who she is. This, to them, is the deepest and most personal of attacks, and is the basis for their rage.

    They take the political personally over there in Loony Lefty Land.

  28. wfgodbold says:

    @Sean

    Then they’ve played right into our trap! Now we’ve been cyberbullied, and are just as much victims as they!

    Which is to say, not at all.

  29. Sebastian says:

    Andy:

    I did… and they took mine down.

  30. Oh, I should point out that CSGV is run by open left wing radicals. I don’t have the links handy, but Kurt Hoffman did a review of the CSGV book. He points out that according to them, the biggest threat from gun owners is that they are a threat to the Progressive political goals. I’ve read it myself, and that’s pretty much their beef with us. If we remain free and armed, they can’t force us to go along with their leftist agenda.

  31. cryptical says:

    All I can say is “Thanks, CSGV!”. A couple of those blogs weren’t on my RSS reader and now they are because if anti-gun bigots hate them they must be good stuff.

  32. RuffRidr says:

    Wow, the desperation from their side is really getting thick. It’s like the last gasp as they circle around the toilet bowl.

  33. Jacob says:

    This is a typical tactic of the Left. Unable to defend their position in the arena of ideas they hope to silence their critics through intimidation.

    While I don’t believe you guys are trying to hide anything by using pseudonyms, in doing so you have opened yourself up to this attack. And frankly Sebastian, in your case even if you did post under your real name, you should have seen this coming. While you are not a “professional” and speak for nobody but yourself, you have managed to attract more attention to yourself than the average gunnie. That makes you a target for this sort of crap.

  34. Sebastian says:

    Oh, I figured this would happen eventually Jacob, and I’m not surprised.

  35. LC Scotty says:

    My hunch (idle speculation here) is that they are hoping someone does get hurt. If it’s one of us they hope we’ll be cowed into silence. If it’s one of them (presumably getting hurt while attacking one of us) then they can point and say “Look what they did.”

  36. “BTW, have you guys complained to Facebook? They might not appreciate CSGV’s antics either, though for different reasons.”

    Andy, I think that is actually a really sound idea. Right on Facebook’s terms they say:
    “You will not bully, intimidate, or harass any user.”
    “You will not post content that: is hateful, threatening, or pornographic; incites violence; or contains nudity or graphic or gratuitous violence.”
    “You will not use Facebook to do anything unlawful, misleading, malicious, or discriminatory.”
    “You will not post content or take any action on Facebook that infringes or violates someone else’s rights or otherwise violates the law.”
    “If you collect information from users, you will: obtain their consent, make it clear you (and not Facebook) are the one collecting their information, and post a privacy policy explaining what information you collect and how you will use it.”
    “You will not post anyone’s identification documents or sensitive financial information on Facebook.”
    http://www.facebook.com/terms.php?ref=pf

    I would suggest that the aggrieved individuals write Facebook HQ them a paper letter via certified mail (shows you’re serious vis a vis an email). It could be combined with a massive email write in campaign organized via the internets.

    On Sean’s tack, these people should realize that it is a two-way street. I sat down for about half an hour last night and located this information about a prominent anti-gun activist who is cheering on these efforts:
    – Full legal name
    – Full address
    – Phone numbers
    – Spouse’s full name, profession, place of business, and likely commute route
    – Church they attend, community organizations belonged to, and friends associated with
    – Type of vehicles operated
    – Tax assessor records for their home, including size, value, # of bedrooms, etc
    – Adult children’s identities and THEIR blog/internet/political activity
    – Full face photographs

    I didn’t bother to pay any money to a net database nor did I call anyone or otherwise do anything other than quickly look at publicly available records.

    I don’t think they really want to go there, or if they do, they should understand it is potentially a two-way street. I agree that it is a dirty game too, and that if you wrestle with a pig you just both get muddy. Still, Sean’s point is correct in that I don’t know if these people realize that their information is also out there.

  37. Here’s facebook’s web form:

    http://www.facebook.com/help/contact.php?show_form=report_tos_violation

    I still think a physical letter by the aggrieved individuals will be best, but it won’t hurt to couple with dozens of TOS violation reports.

  38. Weer'd Beard says:

    “Is the harassing women bit due to not putting up with the insanity japete keeps spouting?

    That’s all I can think of.”

    Pretty sure that IS it. And if Ladd was a non-white, or a homosexual, he’d probably make accusations of racism or homophobia.

    Just like many of us have been branded “Racists” because we didn’t agree with the government bailouts or mandated purchases of healthcare.

    They have no facts or reasons to support their goals, so they are essentially cornered, and all they have left is to fight dirty.

  39. mobo says:

    Sebastian, your “top-secret” real name is still up on their page, in case you were mistaken about it being pulled.

  40. Sebastian says:

    You know, I wonder if I report it if it disappears just for me.

  41. Eck! says:

    Sean said:
    I disagree with the “take the high road” approach. Credible deterrence requires punishment in the event of a violation of the standard norms of behavior. Bullies depend on you following the “rules” when they violate them.
    —–

    I’m with that. I’ve also spent over 25 years on the “net and in other forums and newsgroups this type of attack [it is an attack] always proved the attacker was on the wrong side of a loosing fight.

    The other part of this is the sleazy and I’d add infantile attempt at “outing” I’ve seen. It’s a reflection of their lack on knowledge and for that fact ability.

    If they can’t play nice then their actions will speak for them.

    As it has been said, between “wayback” and other net repositories nothing ever goes away. It can serve as evidence they committed to a action and also that
    they are on a specific path. They are left without the out of “We never did that”. With terabyte size drives being so cheap who knows how many in depth personal databases of miscreant behavior there are.

    With that, they are tagged, we now have the counting coup on them. They don’t understand honor though so it’s meaning is not for them. We know who they are and more importantly what they profess to be.

    Eck!

  42. @kenno271: I have never heard any such allegations. If you have any evidence that supports you statements then I challenge you to produce it. Until that time, your allegations border on the libellous. You mistake me greatly if you think that my dislike of her and her tactics would permit me to involve myself in libel.

    There are three types of people who would make such unsupported statements on a blog. 1. The foolish child, 2. The criminally stupid, or 3. An infiltrator posting false and defamatory comments in order to discredit the rest of us.

    As I see it, you have two choices. You can retract you statement, or you can prove them.

  43. Sebastian says:

    I’m not going to allow unsubstantiated accusations like that to stand here, sorry.

  44. kenno271 says:

    Sorry, I got a bit carried away there. The absolute evil of these people (?) got to me. It is a suspicion I’ve had, however, since she has never condemned him for her sister’s murder.

  45. @Sebastian: You were right to delete the comment. I think that you should have left a blank comment above mine with his name on it for future reference. That is, assuming, that this blog software allows that sort of action.

    @kenno271: No matter how I squint at your last comment I can’t see anything that looks like a retraction. I don’t even see an apology, though the “I’m sorry” fooled me at first. What you’ve said is basically “It was their fault for provoking me.”

    Try words like, “I retract my statement and apologize both to Ms Peterson and to the rest of you who were subjected to my comments,” or something to that effect.

    Then put down the keyboard and step away from the computer. I think you have done enough damage to your reputation for one day.

  46. howapt says:

    I too have “reported” the image to Facebook, though I have not seen any indication that they are going to do anything about it.

    @Sebastian – Well, he seems to have gone the rest of the day without “outing” anyone else, so maybe you are right. I guess time will tell.

  47. Linoge says:

    And that was me above. Wierd.

  48. Roberta X says:

    “Truce?” Aw, geez.

    I don’t blog under my real name ‘cos I have had problems in the past with weirdos showing up at my door; I’d find it very inconvenient to be “outed” and I’d out ’em right back.

    Online, privacy is pretty much an illusion, but it’s considered polite to not make it too easy for the uninvited to find people, especially if there’s a good chance of the uninvited being hostile.

    Nobody will think you’re impolite or unreasonable if you refuse to be a punching bag for these hysterical witlings.

  49. If America had taken the high road in the Cold War, we’d probably not be around.

    I believe you take the judicious road, which may or may not entail height.

    For example, Sebastian might in fact be able to have the CSGV Facebook site taken down. They have a picture of Sebastian. Is that a photo they own copyright to? Nope….

    Send Facebook a take down request that CSGV is posting copyrighted material.

    ;-)

    Shame they don’t allow comments on their site.

  50. Gareth A says:

    Posted a complaint. Hope it helps, this kind of shite shouldn’t be allowed.

  51. Cargosquid says:

    “Everybody on their side is Jadegold,…”

    Weerd,

    That comma should be a period. Everybody on their side IS Jadegold. Jadegold is probably everybody…..

  52. perlhaqr says:

    Stephen: Do we need to start wearing little yellow stars that say “gun owner” on our clothing too, Joan?

    I might actually do that, but mine’s going to say “JPFO”. :)

  53. DirtCrashr says:

    I’m not on Facebook so I’m not a Victim. Boo-hoo me.

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