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On Being a New Jersey Gun Owner

Over at Cemetery’s gun blog.  A lot of New Jersey gun owners don’t really get how bad they have it, and more than a few are blisfully unaware of how easy it is to end up a felon.  At a match a few months ago, I was talking to a guy who’s friend was in a lot of trouble because he and a buddy were target shooting on their property, when the police showed up and, at gunpoint, disarmed them and hauled them off to jail.  He had his kids with him, and there was some worry he’d lose the kids, because they charged him with endangering them too.  His crime?  Possession of .22LR hollow point ammunition.  A whole box of it.  That’s worth a lot of time in New Jersey.  You can buy that stuff easily out of state.  Most folks have no idea it’s illegal.

26 Responses to “On Being a New Jersey Gun Owner”

  1. That’s the one example of NJ fuckedupness that I don’t understand. I can buy hollow points in NJ, have them shipped to me, transport them in my car to the range, shoot them at the range, own them. But I don’t think it’s legal to use them in self defense. It’s one thing I don’t understand.

    But I think what I tried to convey in that post, is that, when new gun owners come onto the scene, we seem to be o.k. with whatever the current laws are, and may go blindly ahead as a gun owner, feeling that it doesn’t really matter, cause it just doesn’t apply to us, as an example, some folks might not care about assault rifles, thus not care about the .50cal ban, not realizing it can affect other types of shooting sports.

    Man, I got a headache trying to read this http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html

  2. Sebastian says:

    It’s legal to have them in your home, and at a range. You can use them to hunt. You can transport them back and forth between such. But apparently you can’t have them on someone else’s property.

  3. Matt says:

    What state is worse? New Jersey or California? They are both evil.

  4. Yeah, you have to be careful with regards to shooting guns on private property in NJ, some townships/municipalities, outlaw firing guns within city/town limits.

  5. Navy Vet from Jersey says:

    Does anybody know the latest on New Jersey’s move to ban .50 calibers? My brother owns a flintlock .50 Thompson Center Arms Fire Storm, and I’d hate to see him suddenly getting arrested.

  6. Sebastian says:

    I hasn’t passed yet. It’s currently in the senate.

  7. Sebastian says:

    Matt,

    Both are bad, but I will say this: I’d go shoot a competition in California. I won’t in New Jersey.

  8. Mike Gordon says:

    One NJ former police chief (who is also a lawyer) once told me that hollow points are basically legal until you get arrested then they are illegal.

  9. Tam says:

    Having spent my entire gun career in GA, TN, and now IN, I can say that the most amazing thing in the world is running into folks from NJ/MA/CA/NY/IL at a gun store or gun show. They literally can’t believe the things you tell them.

    In Georgia once: “No, you don’t need a permit to buy a pistol. Yes, you can take it home that day. Locked in the trunk? Heck,no; you can toss it loaded on the dashboard of your car; you don’t need a permit to keep a loaded pistol in plain sight in your car.”

    One time in Tennessee: “Yes, you can buy that MAC-10. Yes, it’s full-auto. Yes, it’s legal. I don’t care what your buddy back in Cali told you. See that other salesperson? He’s an off-duty cop. You think I’d be selling illegal machine guns with a cop working here?”

    Here in Indy: “No, really, you can get a lifetime carry permit here. No, there’s no mandatory training course. Yes, the permit’s just this little slip of paper that looks like it was run off on someone’s mimeograph machine; no photo, no bar code, you gotta laminate it yourself. Sure, you can carry in a bar if you want to. I wouldn’t get blotto, though.”

    I can’t imagine living someplace like Jersey or Cali…

  10. Navy Vet from Jersey:

    I believe it passed the Assembly, but was referred to another committee to address the issue’s of Flintlocks, and non assault type weapons greater than .50 cal. As a Cowboy shooter, this can affect me as well.

    But who knows. Dollars to Donuts, all the anti gun bills waiting for the senate will slick right through, and get to Corzine to sign faster than anything else in NJ.

    I found a website recently, but can’t find it again, but it had forum for Flintlock/Muzzleloaders/Black Powder Shooter, and they discussed the hearing for the .50cal ban. Someone stated that when Bryan Miller was called out on how this ban affected more than the .50cal bmg round, which his group said it was designed strictly for, they said that Bryan didn’t care about this issue, and that in the end, it was all about the children. Now where’s my barf bag……..

  11. N.J.

    It’s not called the armpit of America for nothing….

    *sighs*

    To all my friends in NJ. My condolences on the death of Liberty in your state. Viva La Revolucion!

  12. Navy Vet from Jersey says:

    This Bryan Miller guy – what is the deal with him anyway? I know his brother got killed in the line of duty as an agent of the FBI by a criminal with a gun, which has got to be painful to him for sure, but I can only wonder if now he gets to line his pockets with some extra cash from being at the top of such a prominent gun-control lobbying foundation, all while trying to diminish whatever gun owning and shooting rights we still have here in New Jersey. I have family who were killed in combat during past conflicts, along with friends who were killed by terrorists aboard the USS Cole in 2000, but you won’t see me trying to make a profit off of any of their deaths.

  13. Sebastian says:

    I doubt Bryan makes any money off his gun control efforts. In fact, I think he finances a lot of it himself. But that’s not to say the guy doesn’t have it in for gun owners. He cares not a whit whether the legal regime over there is so complicated, that you could end up a felon. He doesn’t care what lives his laws destroy. You are a gun owner, and that’s enough for him. If you end up in jail, that’s your problem for owning a gun. It’s wrong to own a gun, don’t you get that?

    I have sympathy that the guy lost a brother. That’s got to be tough. But that doesn’t excuse trying to take away other people’s freedoms, and destroy an important constitution right and an American cultural institution. There are limits to how much we should cater to someone’s grief.

  14. Navy Vet from Jersey says:

    I just looked up “Ceasefire NJ” with Google. Although the website seems to be down right now, there seems to be a page there for Bryan Miller to accept donations from the public at large.

    If this guy is supposedly so well-off that he can finance most of his New Jersey gun-control lobbying efforts personally, which to me seems not all that much of an effort anyway, given that New Jersey is run by such extremely anti-gun politicians now as it is, then why would he even need to solicit any donations online? Furthermore, isn’t it true that Ceasefire New Jersey has received free advertising and promotion on behalf of the Ad Council?

    If George Soros the billionaire gun-hater, or some other wealthy limousine liberal “philanthropist”, donated some big wad of cash to Bryan Miller and/or Ceasefire New Jersey, would any of us even know it? I don’t really think any laws would mandate this, perhaps aside from requirements to report such income to the IRS on tax returns, I guess.

  15. Sebastian says:

    CeaseFire NJ accepts donations, because it’s a 501(c)(4) non-profit organization under the tax codes. That doesn’t go to Bryan himself. Last I checked their tax records, he wasn’t drawing a pay check from them.

  16. Navy Vet from Jersey says:

    Cemetery’s Gun Blob:

    I forgot to say thanks for the information on the .50 caliber ban effort earlier when I should have – sorry.

  17. Moose says:

    The NJ State police web site says hollow points are legal but my wife from PA with a carry permit got pulled over for right turn on red, cop saw a clip in the glove box and they arrested her for possession of hollow points. Bottom line it cost around $1200.00 in legal fees to dismiss the case. One more way to fleece the common man out of his money. Its all about justifying and funding some politicians lifestyle.

  18. Sebastian says:

    Moose:

    Your wife got off lucky. People have spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and still gone to jail.

  19. Sebastian says:

    Hollow points are only legal in New Jersey under exceptions, such as for hunting, in the home, and a few other limited exceptions. If you’re tooling around with one in your car, you are breaking the law.

  20. Joel says:

    I was a Curio & Relics FFL holder in NJ. Also, I had my NJ state permit to purchase. My 25,000.00 dollar collection, which consisted of WWII firearms, one my father in law got while in France during the war, was confiscated as a result of having a high cap mag in my possession. After a night in the Bergen County
    jail, I was freed on 50,000 dollars bail (5,000 at 10%) to later hire a lawyer for 7,000 dollars to represent me. After the embarassment of having my picture with my collection in the papers, on TV and the internet,having my family devastated, I received 2 years probation. Never have I been arrested or in jail, I am 57 years old, a Verizon retiree who has worked all his life. Still, I do not understand how I could be treated as such a criminal and loose my rights along with an expensive collection. Some of the “initial charges were total lies!
    Bottom line, my lawyer convinced me to surrender my liscenses because “they want the guns off the streets.” To say that I am upset is an understatement. After the arrest I ended up in the hospital with chest pains and shortness of breath. To the state police, this all seemed like a joke. If I collect again, it won’t be in this state. But I would like my regular NJ firearms ID back. Any suggestions

  21. A grassroots movement has begun to loosen the noose on law-abiding gun owners in New Jersey! Please visit the community forums at http://www.njcsd.org for all the details.

  22. Dino D. says:

    Does anyone know if a Thompson semi-automatic machine gun is legal to own in NJ? I have heard of the 15 max capacity magazine, would owning a mag that is 15 rounds and none that are larger be legit? Or must I somehow permanently modify the gun to be a 15 round piece? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

  23. Sebastian says:

    Well, if it’s semi-automatic, it’s not a machine gun. The question you’re asking is whether it’s considered an “assault firearm” under New Jersey law. It is not one of the enumerated firearms listed under New Jersey’s assault firearm statutes, so it could be legal depending on its evil feature count.

    The 20 or 30 round magazine would be illegal. Previously, you could block a 20 round magazine so it would only accept 15, and this was OK. I had heard they were looking to change that, so that it would have to be inherently a smaller magazine that could not hold more than 15 rounds.

  24. Dino D. says:

    Thank you for the info Sebastian, Dino D.

  25. GKJ says:

    Looking for some advise from an experienced crowd.

    I live in NJ, and have a friend who owns 25 acres of land in upstate NY. I often go up there on the weekends to camp. He has several guns as we often plink away the afternoon.

    I recently applied for my own NJ F-ID with thoughts of buying a 10/22 to take up there with me.

    After reading the comments on this and other forums I am concerned though.

    Is it legal for me to:
    A) Transport my rifle from NJ to NY? (Assume rifle and ammunition are locked in the trunk.
    B) Will NY recognize my NJ permit if I an stopped ‘north of the border’?

    If you can point me to anything online that covers this I would be grateful. I cannot find much that clearly states the rules.

  26. Sebastian says:

    Jonas:

    Generally, if you have a rifle that’s legal in NJ, it should be legal in New York, if you follow the transportation requirements. I will answer you in more detail when I’ve not had one too many thanksgiving bourbons. E-mail me if I don’t.

    With NY, you don’t get into too much trouble until you’re talking pistols. But if by NY you mean NYC, that’s a different ball game.

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