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It Begins Tomorrow

Clayton notes that sensible people need to get out there and start steering the public debate in a positive direction. I made a decision on Friday to give people the weekend. But tomorrow I plan to begin the political struggle in full to save what many are going to want to do to our rights.

This weekend MoveOn was running vigils around the country, and we drove over to the one near us to see what was going on. About ten people showed up, with six having been registered for the event. This was a good indication for how fired up the gun control movement was getting people. Most other vigils within 100 mile radius had fewer registered than ours. The ones in New York City were likely much better attended, because they had a higher registration rate than the ones in this area.

I did not take pictures. The event was not overtly political, and to the extent that people showed up because they were grieving, I did not want to make a spectacle out of it. For all anyone knows, it was a group of people celebrating Christmas, because that’s what it would have looked like to a casual observer. CSGV also held a protest at the White House on Friday, which you can see was not well attended. I don’t think people really want to see this politicized, so to the extent that the other side is doing it, there’s something to be said for never interrupt your enemy when he’s in the middle of making a mistake.

25 Responses to “It Begins Tomorrow”

  1. There was one here in Minnesota held by “Protect Minnesota”, formerly known as “Citizens for a Safer Minnesota”. We have photos showing 15-16 folks at the vigil – news reports said 30-35.

    B

  2. motomed says:

    In terms of gun rights, I honestly don’t think this tragedy is going to have any real impact. This one is so unthinkable that many people seem to find the “blame guns” approach unsatisfactory. Those approaching this with an open mind recognize that this kind of evil is beyond regulation. I’ve seen far more people make comments on the mental health aspect. This was bad enough that it rocked a lot of people and forced them to take an honest look at the situation. People disagree on the extent that gun laws played a role, but there is unanimous agreement that for something like this to happen, our mental health system has to be a total failure.

    • Sebastian says:

      This one is so unthinkable that many people seem to find the “blame guns” approach unsatisfactory.

      I have a sense of this too, but I’m not sure I’m going to allow myself to get that optimistic, which feels like a step away from complacency. I sincerely hope you turn out to be correct.

      • Ash says:

        I think you guys are standing on a beach talking about the weather, ignoring the tidal wave that is about to crash down.

        I’ve never seen a reaction like this before to a killing spree. I doubt many politicians will have the will to resist the coming proposals.

        • Sebastian says:

          Well, right now, there’s not much else we can do. What’s going to come is going to come.

        • The Jack says:

          Ash. I just don’t know. I know the media is pushing as hard as they can and that there are a lot of very angry and vocal people pushing for this. Social Media is lighting up.

          But how deep is it? How many people are really in this wave?

          Does it even matter since there’s enough cover for the politicians to go along with whatever crazy laws get cooked up?

          I will note that the “Ban All guns” group seems to be the loudest and is pushing out the “Assault Weapons” group.

          Though both are still going “LoL paranoid gun nuts think we’re after their guns. No one’s talking about bans And we need to Ban guns!”

        • Harold says:

          I doubt many politicians will have the will to resist the coming proposals.

          If enough House Republicans don’t, they’ll be spending more time with the families come 2015. Ditto for statehouses, where Republican strength has returned to 1920s levels.

          Of course, that’ll be cold comfort if something really nasty comes down the pike, but e.g. I don’t see Obama getting out in front of it, not his style, and not an area he’s really interested in. He’s not a cultural Baby Boomer with their culture war obsessions, such a Bill Clinton. He’s of my “Generation Jones”, and in his case is pushing old time religion, a playbook out of the ’30s, not ’60s. And at least up to now he’s been careful to not push us hard, or very much at all for that matter.

  3. Chas says:

    The folks at moveon.org should have a sister site called “deadstop.org”. They want to move on when they don’t like the topic, such as the indiscretions of Bill Clinton upon which they were founded, but they want to come to a dead stop when the topic suits them, such as gun control. Yeah, they really are a bunch of commie jerks.

  4. JJD says:

    How is the general feeling outside of the big cities?

    Inside, liberals are highly inflamed and motivated to a new degree. I’ve been having discussions on Facebook, but many are going “Fuck you gun-worshippers we need to do SOMETHING!11!1”

    • Sebastian says:

      Around here, it’s not good. These people were always out there, but if they get involved, we have a serious fight on our hands. Politicians are cowards, for the most part. Some will stick with you, but many of them will throw you under the bus as soon as you become politically inconvenient for them.

    • Sebastian says:

      I should note, I’m just outside a big city, so this certainly isn’t rural America.

  5. jmt says:

    The Brady Campaign, MAIG, and their ilk have not had much going their way in the past few years. They have grabbed on to this tragedy like a drowning man to a life preserver – they know if they can’t do anything with this, they are truly out of favor. While the world is watching this weekend, once the week starts, folks go back to work, and we get our next “Crisis of the Week”, the public will move on.

    The tide will ebb; and as long as we stand strong and continue to do what we have done over the past 20 years, things will be alright.

    That being said, if the White House needs a distraction from negotiations with the Republicans, the President may push some executive orders like he did after the Arizona shooting.

    • Jake says:

      That being said, if the White House needs a distraction from negotiations with the Republicans, the President may push some executive orders like he did after the Arizona shooting.

      Looks like this tragedy is already working as a distraction in that regard. Using it later as “justification” for some distracting executive orders later on wouldn’t surprise me one little bit.

  6. Skeptic says:

    Pin people down on what restriction they would impose, and then ask them if it would have stopped the tragedy in question.

  7. Beatbox says:

    Something will be passed. People need to feel they are doing something. All you can do is keep repeating the questions “how would this law have stopped him?” and “if you were a teacher in the school when this started, at that moment would you rather be with a gun or without a gun?”

  8. Skullz says:

    I think there is some considerable paranoia in the gun community as well as in the “new to guns” community. My local gun club held a post shoot on Saturday and it was well attended ( the club made money). The local gun shops (2 within 5 miles of the club) were stacked 3 deep. The “evil black rifles” sold out within minutes of the shops opening as did the requisite magazines and ammunition.

    Everyone at the post shoot was talking about Newtown, and all were focused on the state of care for the mentally ill. However, all were also convinced that there might be enoug emotional reaction to this tragedy that additional “feel good – do nothing laws” would have a much better chance if passing.

    Obviously I was at a gun club, so there was a bias toward the 2nd Amendment. But not folks had the same plan – Monday was the day they would begin to contact their representatives to express their thoughts about focussing on the actual cause, rather than an easy scapegoat. We’ll see.

    Of course there were also a number of individuals expressing their reaction to additional useless laws. They ranged from simple non compliance to the views of the three percent.

    I pray that our elected leaders are open minded and thoughtful in the coming days and weeks, as out of the hundred plus attendees at the shoot, there were a lot more than 3 that identified with the three percent.

  9. JJD says:

    I’d say there is a 50-50 chance of me never being able to own an Modern Sporting Rifle at this rate.

    The pressure on our Congresscritters must be immense, and they aren’t known for sticking to their own promises if said promises become inconvenient.

  10. motomed says:

    I’m fairly confident that two weeks from now this will be mostly forgotten. Passion motivated by emotion instead of logic and committment doesn’t last, and all we’re seeing right now is a whole lot of raw emotion. That doesn’t translate to anything meaningful. The “do something” crowd will be busy with christmas and new years and by then there will be something else to carry on about. Anyone with enough staying power to continue the fight was already fighting us, and losing. Once emotions cool and the discussion is taking place between those actually committed to one side or the other, we’ll win the debate, just like we have been for a while now. Stay the course.

    • Harold says:

      Jeeze, it would be really ironic if the Christmas season helped us dodge a bullet as it were. Then again, that’s when families gather together along with Thanksgiving, but on the other hand this is “unthinkable” as I’ve mocked and people might prefer not to think about it in the context of their families right with them.

  11. Sebastian says:

    I’m fairly confident that two weeks from now this will be mostly forgotten. Passion motivated by emotion instead of logic and committment doesn’t last, and all we’re seeing right now is a whole lot of raw emotion.

    That raw emotion got California the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Ban, got the UK a handgun ban, and got the Australians a semi-auto rifle ban. Don’t underestimate the power of this kind of thing. It’s better to be too paranoid than too complacent.

    • Harold says:

      But how representative are any of these legislative bodies? There’s many reasons we don’t have a Westminster parliamentary system like the U.K. and Australia, and these bans are examples of that, also perhaps of the state furiously trying to distract from why they’d let the shooters run free (Oz) or own guns (U.K.) in the first place. For another really big example of the excesses of that system, imagine a US Prime Minister … renovating the Senate by packing it with his handpicked cronies (yes, Blair did that to the House of Lords, which might have been the oldest surviving representative body that had been seriously stressed (latter qualifier to eliminate Iceland, maybe)).

      Similarly, Roberti-Roos happened after the Burtonmander, the first serious computerized gerrymander in the country after the 1980 census. It’s clear that California has had an out of control legislature for a long time; I note the historic 1978 Proposition 13, which touched on much more than real estate taxes. WRT to the state legislature, “the initiative also contained language requiring a two-thirds majority in both legislative houses for future increases of any state tax rates or amounts of revenue collected, including income tax rates” (Wikipedia). So the people of California weren’t exactly thinking trusting thoughts towards any level state or local government a decade before Stockton. I believe Clayton was in and around California in that time, perhaps he can share some insight.

      For us to see national action, Obama would have to do more than vote Present, Reid would have to give up on reelection in 2016, and the Republican House leadership would have to be particularly stupid … which could well be our greatest danger, since the Stupid Party has been particularly so as of late.

      One other thought at this level: a lot of Progressives are terrified we’re going to take up our arms and roll back Obama’s “fundamental transformation” of the US by force. I wonder if they’ll view this as a last chance to prevent that, or decide to let sleeping dogs lie (that saying goes back to Chaucer!)

      State-wise, well, I’m glad I’m not in Pennsylvania. I’m pretty sure I don’t have anything to worry about in Missouri, don’t have a feel for much elsewhere, but as I’ve noted before, Republicans have more state level power than any time since the ’20s. And the local ones don’t tend to be quite as self-destructively stupid as the national ones, they don’t have quite the MSM pressure, the perks of going native, etc.

      • You are aware than Nevada went blue this election, right?

        There is a huge demographic shift in Nevada. I recently spent most of a year in Vegas. Kalifornication is well underway. Lots of economic refugees from Kalifornia are fleeing, and while Vegas is in bad shape economically too, at least the tax burden is lower. So people flee Kalifornia because it is an economic hellhole, and then they vote the same way in Nevada. Unbelievable.

        Romney carried every county in Nevada except for two: one on the Kali border and Clark County (Vegas). And that was enough to win the state.

        Don’t assume that Reid is a sure thing.

        • Harold says:

          Hmmm, OK, he’s certainly a gun-grabber at heart. So I’ll go back to the other point I made, which conveniently happens much sooner: I expect he’d like to be Majority Leader in 2015-16. That’s much less likely if he helps vulnerable members spend more time with their families after the next election.

          So, how many are there? Jon Tester of Montana is safe for another 6 years. Max Baucus is I gather something of an institution in the state, but would he be vulnerable? Where else?

          We also need to reign in the RINOs….

  12. Bryan S. says:

    I know at least one store broke it’s black friday record last week. This weekend, they had to have police to direct traffic, and had lines well outside the door.

    PICS also crashed, to no surprise, for 4 HOURS.

    Response here is either to hoard… or get them while you can.

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