This should serve as both an omen, and a warning to Republicans:
But Virginia voters now have the luxury and being able to simply not worry about our 2nd Amendment rights in this years gubernatorial election.Â Its tough to say which candidate is actually better than the other on gun rights.
Which means, for once in a long time, we can actually focus on issues like transportation, and taxes, and education, and whether Pat Robertson will be allowed to monitor who and in what positions we choose to fornicate.
Take an important issue away from Republicans, and you might be surprised as to which issues motivate us.
19 thoughts on “Quote of the Day”
Here’s where I disagree on Deeds. He may have been good on guns, but so was Tim Kaine. Now look. He sold us out for the nomination in the debates, he will sell us out if a “loophole” closing bill gets on his desk.
More importantly, the VA & NJ governorships are bellweather elections. A vote for Deeds is politically (though not effectively) identical to approving of Obama. The local issues will not matter one bit to the national coverage…it will be portrayed as proof that Americans support Obama’s agenda and would rather have socialized medicine, government control of wages, etc. A Deeds victory will make the rest of the nation think opposing Obama is futile, and will hurt our chances to kick the socialists out in 2010.
So I really don’t care if Bob McDonnell has a problem with orgasms. Voting for him is a big FU to Barack Obama, and therefore he is the far, far superior candidate.
Deeds seems to be good on guns but like Gillibrand he is not as solid as McDonnell. Plus McDonnell is more fiscally restrained. Deeds allowed the VT parents to influence him into think that eliminating the ability to privately transfer guns between people is a good idea. WRONG!!!
Freedom depends on people ability to get arms that are unknown to the government. So the private transfer ability must be retained. The government can track any gun that goes through a FFL, which are most. We need the ability to have gunsâ€ lost” or “stolen” to make sure that that we can retain guns even in the face of confiscation.
Of course that ability does run the risk that bad people can get guns without running the background check. I accept that risk to keep my freedom.
So far I have never took advantage for myself but MD does not allow any transaction of guns that does not go through a FFL. But I want to retain that ability. Kind of like all these new gun owners who did not feel the need to get a gun during Bushâ€™s term but now do.
Just so long as you remember that there may be issues that your RKBA allies (actual or merely apparent) value more highly. Sen. Gillibrand is one such person. Gov. Kaine is another.
McDonnell has done an exemplary job as Attorney General (an elected position) in Virginia, especially on RKBA issues. Deeds has been…better than the national average, if that can really be called a selling point.
Ed makes a fair point, and he’s correct. The Virginia and New Jersey elections will be bellwethers for measuring the national mood, so to speak.
But I also think it’s good to have the establishment supported anti-gun candidate go down in flames. It takes at least one important issue off the table, or mostly off the table. Settled in our favor.
Countertop and I share the same discomfort with conservatives. As more libertarian minded people, neither of us like the hope change express, but nor do we particularly like being in a coalition with social conservatives. I’m willing to accept them, because we need them to defeat hope/change. But it’s an uncomfortable alliance.
Ed, where do you get that Deeds & Kaine are anything alike on guns? Kaine had no record on the issue other than using tax dollars as mayor of Richmond to send the Million Mom March participants to DC to protest gun rights. Deeds has actually been a pro-gun leader in the past. Yes, he made statements of concern on gun shows during the primary while being challenged by farther left members of his party while at a debate at Virginia Tech. Shocking.
But McDonnell has not always reliable for us by any stretch. Until he bent over backwards on the issue after Deeds got the NRA endorsement when they both ran for AG, McDonnell only had a B+ mostly because he did throw our hunting gun owners under the bus.
I’ll fess up to not following fiscal issues. One thoroughly cited analysis I found this morning indicated that McDonnell actually had a terrible record on raising taxes, but unfortunately, Deeds has a worse one thanks to this last session. But, I think you guys are misreading what Sebastian is trying to say. The beauty of this election for gun owners is that they can vote on these issues if they are normally one-issue voters.
Now, it is a fair concern that the national media will misconstrue the results if Deeds wins, but they did that when Kaine won as well. It was a sign that Virginia was going completely blue! And yet no mention was made that his Lt. Gov. lost and the GOP won the other big statewide race for AG. I definitely would rather avoid a repeat of that story, but I don’t blame gun owners who also choose to stand behind Deeds.
You want omens and warnings, read Laffer’s article in today’s opinionjournal.
Ed: In what way was Tim Kaine EVER portrayed (except in his own Brady funded delusions) as being good on guns. No one in their right mind every mistook the Brady Supporting, Million Mom March Attending (on the taxpayer dime) Gun Banning mayor of Richmond as being good on guns. Where in gods name did the idea of Tim Kaine being good on guns EVER come from???
RAH: How is McDonnell better on guns than Deeds?? Because one made a worthless throw away comment at a political event while trying to win a primary against two significantly more liberal opponents?? I didn’t want to say it when you first proposed that Deeds was bad on guns, and I don’t know for sure if its your motivation, but thats right straight from the dishonest playbook of McDonnell (who was far more frightened of having to fight Deeds in a statewide election than Moran or McAuliffe).
Sorry, but he’s not. Deeds has been with us on every gun rights issue we have asked him to be in Virginia. Frankly, its a complete wash and ludicrous to compare them otherwise. There is no resemblance to Gillibrand, at all. Virginia isn’t new York. He didn’t become a gun banning bigot in order to appease NY City voters (mostly cause NOVA Voters are as pro gun as the rest of the state – remember VCDL stated as the Northern Virginia Citizens Defense League. He never lived in NY City/NOVA.
Look, if your a religious conservative – more power to you. But stop being disingenuous about Creigh Deeds.
As far as being an FU to Obama, I think Deeds victory was a pretty big FU to Obama. But yes Ed, thats certainly something worth considering. Unfortunately, as much as I want to say FU to Obama, I want republicans to get a clue and learn a lesson about what it takes to win elections – and I don’t think Bob McDonnell is that lesson (though I am willing to be convinced otherwise – I really don’t have anything against him, my beef is with Pat Robertson who I have worked with and dealt with for years and who I have a deep seated distrust of).
Deeds voted for a gas tax from press accounts. I think McDonnell is easier to push to better gun rights than Deeds as Deedâ€™s proposed to close the gun show loophole is a new conversion.
As to Countertopâ€™s fear of Pat Robertson, he is not on the ballot. I personal l have less fear of the religious right than the liberal left. I am not a religious person so I do not understand libertarian fear of the social conservative. I am more socially conservative but agnostic mostly.
I think Pat R is a loon most of the time but he is not a real danger.
Deed’s is a Democrat, a Virginia democrat who is more conservative than the national Democrats, but Virginia Democrats are going more liberal in the last 20 years. That is why VA. Is going blue.
The prohibition on hunting on Sundays is a traditional position. So were the Blue Laws that had stores closed on Sundays but are now gone.
They way to change the hunting days is get that to the legislature and get a hunting electorate that pushes for it. However many hunters also are church going so they are not pushing a demand for it
Countertop if you want hunting on Sundays, which is fine with me, you should organize fellow hunters and lobby for it.
Most non-hunters are neutral on hunting technical issues such as season, days and type of weapon. HSUS is the main opponent as Sebastian states.
By the way the natural ally for hunting with hounds is the foxhunters who is a strong group in VA. They are the landowners and have some money and want to retain their sport. So there is common cause there.
I know Deeds has a better record on guns, but Kaine was sold, with lies, but still sold, as being good on guns. Now, that’s not the same as a record, but even a record does not predict actions once in office (Gillibrand comes to mind, and let’s not forget how happy we all were when she took the evil one’s seat in NY).
I have a real problem with the cave on gun shows, even if it was merely political, because he essentially made a campaign promise to kill gun shows in VA. He may want to keep that promise. Even if he doesn’t want to, I fear he will because of pressure from allies in the legislature and/or the rather large monetary support he’ll get from some big leftists up here now that he’s up against a Republican.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m very glad he won the primary. No matter what happens in November, we’ll have a governor who is good on guns. I just think we (as gun owners) will be disappointed by Deeds’s actions should he win. We might be by McDonnell too, but…
What’s far more important to me is the national significance. A Deeds win will be spun as an Obama win, no two ways about it. Heath Shuler’s win was spun as a win for Pelosi, and they have very little in common. And, as far as the media is concerned, VA is blue. It voted for Obama, has a D gov. right now and two D Senators, a D state legislature and a fairly even split Congressional delegation (versus overwhelmingly GOP a few years ago).
The D next to his name is all folks will see, and while I have no qualms about voting for a pro-gun D over an anti-gun R, in a case where the two are essentially the same on guns, I have to vote against the Obama spin.
Either way, the nice thing about VA is that we only have to deal with the gov for 4 years, then we get a new one.
For the record, I’m fairly libertarian and share your (Sebastian, countertop and bitter) mistrust of the religious right, but would take just about any of them over Obama or anything that strengthens Obama.
Tax/fiscal policy issues are another debate. As i said in my first post, a refreshing change that we can focus on other issues.
I disagree about who is easier to push one way or another. Frankly, as I keep saying, on guns they are a wash. I tend to think Deeds is marginally better from a strategic standpoint since Republicans generally are better on guns and therefore the additional sway Deeds has over his party provides more support for the 2nd Amendment than McDonnell will bring. But again, its basically a wash.
As to Pat R, if you don’t understand the control he exerts over Virginia’s GOP than you basically aren’t involved in Virginia politics. Just look at what all three of our last GOP Gubernatorial candidates and the demands he placed on them (which ultimately doomed their candidacy – I’ll admit, McDonnell isn’t anywhere as bad as Early and Kilgore had other problems (namely bringing in – at Pat R’s insistance – Rove’s campaign team, but still).
Regarding Sunday hunting: HSUS isn’t the problem in Virginia. Pat Robertson is the problem. Hunters are organized on the issue. The NRA is engaged on the issue, but Robertson has put together (and funded) a fascinating coalition of PETA/HSUS, Farm Bureau, and the Churchs. Heck, he even has control of elements within EPA (though I have been promised that they have addressed – through internal firewalls and physically moving people – that problem).
Yes Ed. And the refreshing thing, is we can have this conversation in Virginia – about signals and trends and other policy issues without having to worry too much about our gun rights. Thats why I’m so happy. Finally, I can look at other issues.
Back in September Sebastian said that “Our churches are the gun clubs, the gun shops and the gun shows.” Seems to me that makes Deed’s new found love for killing gun shows—totally irrelevant to Virgina Tech—something to be rather concerned about.
It’s definitely a concern, Harold. But I don’t think McDonnell is perfect either. Deeds was far an away the best of the lots when it came to the Dems. Bloomberg hated him enough to try to smear him with the gun issue with voters.
I’d also point out that, as far as gun show bills go, the bill that Deeds voted for wouldn’t extinguish gun shows. It required gun show promoters to provide a means for people to run the background checks while at the show. Very very unlike the federal law proposed by McCarthy and Lautenberg that is meant to end gun shows.
That’s not to say Deeds wasn’t wrong to support this, and I think gun owners should weight that when considering who to vote for. But compared to the other Dems, Deeds is far and away the better choice.
Oh, Deeds was by far the best of the dems, but that’s not saying much of anything. Moran is the corrupt brother of the wildly corrupt anti-Semite Jim Moran. That’s the only reason he ever held office. McAuliffe is, well, he’s Terry McAuliffe…nuff said. Deeds is a relative centrist and had been good on guns. Moran and McAuliffe, not so much.
Still, there’s a lot to consider come November, and I think McDonnell will be more appealing as the country lapses into a soft totalitarian mush, if only because he will harm Obama politically.
Hmmm, this National Review article plus the Washington Post one quoted below say that Deeds has also changed his positions on gay marriage or “recognition of any legal status ‘approximat[ing] the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage'” and partial birth abortion.
That suggests to me a willingness to change his “principles” based on the situation he finds himself in and that his prior pro-gun record is no more useful in predicting his future behavior than Gillibrand’s was.
Now, Virginia is no New York, but it’s got some seriously anti-gun areas like the Richmond, plus Northern Virginia is I gather still moving blue (haven’t paid close attention since I left Arlington in 2004).
And Doug Wilder “said he was disappointed with Deeds’s reversals. ‘What Creigh is saying now is, ‘I’ve changed my philosophy,” Wilder said. ‘Suppose we had elected you before? Would you have changed?’“.
That article also says that Deed’s new position on gun shows was not a debate one off, “Deeds has told audiences that he has changed his mind.”
“For two years in a row, he championed amendments to the bill to close the loophole that would weaken the legislation but, he believed, would secure enough votes to get it out of committee.” (That’s the Post’s assertion, it’s not backed up.)
After more about Deeds changing his positions the article ends with this quote from him, “‘Each of us is a work in progress. I think most people acknowledge that we change a little every day,’ he said. ‘I always reserve the right to be smarter tomorrow than I am today.'”
On the other hand, this article says that “McDonnell, then a legislator, supported [ Wilder’s one handgun a month ] ban”. Sounds like a hard look at his record is in order.
NOVA Voters are as pro gun as the rest of the state
You’re not from Northern Virginia, are you? (That you call it “NOVA” strongly implies that you’re not.) There are certainly pockets of support, but there are an increasing number of transients and carpetbaggers filling up the voter rolls there. If the 703 is as pro-gun as Gloucester or Farmville then I’d be very much amazed. It may be a battleground for Democrat primaries, but it’s the 757 that’s at issue in the general election.
In the last election, I had a hard time choosing between Deeds and McDonnell; I’m not entirely sure whether I voted for McDonnell or just wrote someone in, as I usually do when I don’t like any of the choices or just don’t have a preference. I do know that I didn’t pick Deeds, though.
I was working at a middle school at the time, and I was there when Deeds visiting a social studies class during the campaign. Noting that one of the students was eighteen, he encouraged the student to vote for him. Now that’s not a huge thing, but I think it demonstrates poor judgement to do that while school is in session. Others may think differently, but for me it was enough of a lapse to ensure that, despite his at-the-time okay views on issues, I wouldn’t be voting for him.
I’ve lived McLean for 15 years. My wife was born and raised here (Sibley Hospital in DC). I’ve been coming to the area for 20.
NOVA is nova is NoVA is whatever.
And while the post and Arlington politicians (and my asshole Delegate Jim Scott) are anti gun, the population as a whole is rather pro gun.
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