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Live Coverage: The Senate Vote (Hopefully)

The Hill is reporting that the votes on the Toomey-Manchin Amendment still aren’t there. Let’s hope that holds until the votes.

10:41AM: Grassley, Cruz, and Graham announced a substitute amendment to the gun bill, which does not appear to contain any expansion of NICS requirements. It still has a number of measures we’ll like. It basically just encourages states to report records for people who were declared not-guilty by reason of insanity.

10:43AM: Expect a lot of crickets on the Senate Floor today as the kabuki is worked out. I’ll try to keep posting, but keep checking here. Like yesterday, when they break for lunch and come back, I’ll start a new post.

10:46AM: Here’s some of the votes the are missing.

10:46AM: John Cornyn (R-TX) is up on the floor noting the Second Amendment is not about hunting or recreation. “The Second Amendment has long been a bulwalk of individual liberty.” “Every mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone,” well, that’s not quite true, but a lot of them are. Says no background check bill would have prevented Adam Lanza, since he murdered his mother to steal her guns.

10:53AM: Cornyn is introducing National Reciprocity as an Amendment. “This will essentially treat concealed carry licenses like drivers’ licenses.” Now he’s talking about the story of Suzanna Hupp. Hey, if the other side gets to tell victim stories, so do we. His amendment will be S.Amd 719. Entered. He’s saying the vote will be at 4:00PM.

11:04AM: Susan Collins (R-ME) is trying to lay down her gun credentials before backing the Toomey-Manchin amendment.

11:13AM: I have to laugh about this speech. While I don’t agree with the amendment Collins is backing, I do recognize that the anti-gun groups are being forced to cheer on a speech by a woman who is condemning so much of their ultimate agenda. She’s also making clear that even if the Toomey-Manchin amendment passes, she’s not vowing support for the final bill since there will be other anti-gun amendments allowed for votes.

11:16AM: John Barrasso (R-WY) is now talking about a different amendment topic–restricting state and local governments from releasing gun owner information to the public. He tells stories of domestic violence victims who have had their information published and guns stolen from homes put on a map.

11:21AM: Barrasso talks about supporting concealed carry reciprocity because he has a concealed carry license and would like to carry in other states. He called for people to support his amendment on gun owner privacy and Cornyn’s amendment. And now we’re silent…

11:23AM: Joe Manchin just took the floor and asked for permission to speak for 45 minutes. Ugh. His speech starts out with how much he loves the NRA. He even brags about carrying his card in his wallet and reads every magazine. It then turns into complaining about their legislative alerts and how he claims they aren’t accurate.

11:29AM: Manchin says that he’s talked to “all his gun owners” back in West Virginia. Really? Every single one? He also says that over 80% of them support his amendment. He also says that he has never written or signed a perfect bill, that they are all screwed up. Um, voters in West Virginia…you elected a guy who brags about making bad laws?

11:33AM: Manchin says that opponents to his amendment are people who don’t want to follow any laws–don’t want to have a license to drive on public roads or pay any taxes at all. Wow.

11:38AM: He turns to the terror angle and says that terrorists can go down to any gun show and buy fully automatic firearms without any background checks. He also says that there are people making a living selling firearms illegally, so his bill will make it more illegal.

11:41AM: Manchin tries to tie an NSSF survey saying that 25% of modern sporting rifle owners bought at least part of their rifle online, so that shows how scary the online marketplace of guns is and why it needs more regulations. There’s so much fail and so many distortions in his claims that it’s absurd.

11:44AM: Manchin now specifically encourages gun owners to break his law. He says that posting public announcements on bulletin boards around town and then selling them without background checks is perfectly legal under his amendment. No, it’s not. That’s illegal under his amendment, and Manchin is now encouraging gun owners to become felons under his language.

11:57AM: Manchin is off. Back to the crickets on the Senate Floor.

11:58AM: I think our music today is Handel. If it’s not, it’s something Baroque.

12:02PM: While there are crickets on the floor, they are having a protest outside the Capitol. Apparently they have issues with audio.

12:08PM: Kirsten Gillibrand is urging everyone to join the Toomey-Manchin amendment. She notes the victims deserve better! Victims are important now. Unlike when she had an A grade form the NRA before becoming Senator, I guess. Now she’s telling victim stories. It’s For the Children(TM). For the Children, we need to make gun trafficking double plus secret illegal. She’s being really over the top in her speech. She notes that the current penalties are just paperwork violations. Yeah. Paperwork violations that can land you a quarter million dollar fine and 5 to 10 years in federal prison, depending on what you lied about.

12:15PM: She’s yields the floor to Blumenthal (D-CT). He is urging his colleges to “heed and hear the families of Newtown.” I feel very sorry for what happened to them, but I didn’t have anything to do with it, and none of these proposals would have done anything to prevent it. I’m not going to agree to give up my freedoms for the acts of a lunatic. “We have to do something about the guns,” was the message from the Newtown families. You know, I’m more interested in doing something about the lunatics. If they can’t buy guns, it’s not like we restrict pressure cookers. “Let us choose love!” Oh please. Why do people vote for politicians who spew this kind of dreck? Hey, I love freedom. So yeah, let us choose love. He also wants to make illegal trafficking double illegal, even though the law we already has is poorly enforced. “We can make killers less lethal!” So you’re going to ban pressure cookers? We have to ban ordinary magazines For the Children(TM).

12:31PM: Now Blumenthal is telling everyone how much he cares about police officers. Because of that we have to ban 9mm semi-automatic pistols and “hollow point bullets.” He noted those bullets pierced the “bullletproof vest” No, they are resistant vests. Sometimes they fail, even for bullets they are rated for. He notes that their “bullet proof armor” could not have defended themselves against Adam Lanza’s AR-15. Well, they couldn’t have defended themselves against grandpa’s hunting rifle either. Any rifle round will go through soft body armor. He reiterates we have to choose love. I will, and I love freedom, Senator.

12:38PM: Bob Menendez is up now, to talk about how we need to ban assault weapons. Well, you know, we ban underaged hookers, but how well does that law work? This corrupt asshole has no business lecturing anyone. Menendez is upset over National Reciprocity. Good. I can understand why. Criminals really don’t like honest citizens being able to defend themselves. Bob Mendez says in 5 seconds, assault weapons can fire 52 rounds. That’s assuming it’s an M16 with the selector set on Full Auto. That’s not what anyone is talking about and he knows it. He brings up the Street Sweeper, even though that was reclassified as a destructive device years ago. He believes we have a responsibility to take an assault weapons off the street. I think we ought to take him off the streets.

12:48PM: Tom Coburn is up right now. “The issue in front of us now is how do we protect the Second Amendment right, and the Supreme Court rulings.” “I believe I actually have an answer.” He notes there’s a lot of problems with the “do not buy” list, as he characterizes it. He notes that most gun owners don’t really want to sell guns to felons. He’s basically hawking his proposal we linked to earlier. It almost sounds like using his system would be voluntary. He’s offering his proposal as an amendment. It would also protect the rights of veterans. He notes it would limit the power of ATF to issue demand letters. This would be a good thing, as this is often abused. Using the system would be free, it sounds like.

1:07PM: Senator Richard Burr (R-NC) is speaking about his amendment to protect the Second Amendment rights of veterans. It would restore rights for people who are unable to manage their own finances.

1:19PM: Chris Murphy (D-CT) is up. I’m sure this will be another sob story trying to emotionally blackmail others into voting his way. Chris Murphy is very angry. You know, they have counseling for that. He also notes that the firearm could fire six bullets a second. This is a lie. That is the cyclic rate of the M16, which is not the issue here. Lanza’s rifle as not an M16. These people can’t win without lying. They can’t even win lying now, fortunately. Now he’s hawking Manchin-Toomey. It’s the 40% lie again. He’s continuing the lie about these being military weapons. No military in the world issues a semi-automatic rifle.

1:33PM: Grassley is proposing his amendment, along with Cruz and Graham. He’s offering it as a substitute. There’s a bit of law-and-order Republican fun in this bill, but I’ll take that over Manchin-Toomey.

1:51PM: Grassley yields the floor and suggests the absence of a quorum. This forces a roll call and let’s the senate stay in session. This also likely means no one is immediately waiting to speak.

1:52PM: Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) is up on the floor, explaining why there are some sticking points with some of these bills. He’s describing some of the troubles ordinary gun owners can run into having to do private sales through an FFL.

1:58PM: The floor goes silent again.

2:05PM: Jack Reed (D-RI) is up saying good thing about the Toomey-Manchin amendment.

2:09PM: Richard Shelby (R-AL) is now up pointing out that “this legislation,” whatever it might be at this point, wouldn’t have stopped Newtown.

2:20PM: Manchin is now asking Shelby a question on the floor. He asks about all the great things in his bill, according to him. Shelby responds that he fundamentally disagrees with his colleague on what these measures would do.

2:21PM: Lindsey Graham (R-SC) is up now. By the way, this is the kabuki. There will be a vote, that’s why they’re all wanting to have their say today. Lindsey Graham notes that there are thousands if not millions of magazines already out there that hold more than ten rounds. “It wouldn’t affect criminals one bit” Graham notes the best way to protect kids is to have a security officer present in the school. “Don’t kid yourself that having to reload is going to deter a shooter.” He’s recounting the story from Atlanta of the women who emptied a .38 revolver into a home invader, hit him 5 times and the guy drove off. “The reason I own [an AR-15] is that I like to shoot.” He’s noting that AR-15s are very good for times when law and order break down, like after a hurricane. This is a real concern for people who live in hurricane prone areas, like South Carolina. “It’s not the gun, it’s who owns it.” Graham notes that 1/3rd of assault in the US are by more than one attacker.

2:31PM: Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) is up speaking of Boston. S.Res 101, condemning the attacks in Boston is brought up. The measure is agreed to via unanimous consent.

2:43PM: Senator Cowan (D-MA) is up speaking of Boston.

2:47PM: John McCain (R-AZ) is up explaining why he’s supporting Toomey-Manchin. McCain has always been for banning private sales, so this is not much of a surprise he’d get behind this.

2:52PM: The White House is e-mailing it’s list urging people to call.

2:53PM: McCain is explaining why he thinks Manchin-Toomey is constitutional. Like other supporters, he points to the utterly useless provision that creates a 15 year prison sentence for misusing records. Who’s going to enforce that?

2:57PM: Manchin thanks McCain for his support.

2:58PM: Tom Harkin (D-IA) offers an amendment related to mental health services.

3:07PM: Leahy (D-VT) is up now. He’s praising the Manchin-Toomey bill. He also has an amendment. S.Amend. 713. His amendment would seem to have to do with straw purchasing and illegal trafficking. I’m guessing this is an alternative to Gillibrand’s bill. Leahey decrees the Republican amendment “A weak and counterproductive alternative,” and complains that this was just sprung on them, and there have been no hearings. You know, kind of like what they tried to do with Manchin-Toomey.

3:20PM: Cruz is up defending Grassley-Cruz-Graham. Cruz brings up the PoliceOne Survey on the floor.

3:35PM: Schumer is challenging Cruz on background checks. Cruz argues that extending to private sellers is consequential, not trivial. Schumer is challenging that no one is attempting to create registration. Except that’s what the 4473 can easily become, and Toomey-Manchin does not prevent ATF from using 4473s from defunct FFLs.

3:37PM: Manchin notes that private transactions were excluded, except the truth is, the language is so bad. Cruz has the correct understanding of what this does, that it applies to any advertisement. Cruz notes that this is just very consequential. I agree. It’s confusing, and it could land people in jail through the confusion. If you ever advertised a gun for sale, you could then not sell it later in a private sale, even one not arranged through the Internet, unless they were family.

3:42PM: Manchin is challenging him on whether it isn’t best to wait 48 hours after introduction to vote on a bill or amendment. Cruz snarikly asks if Manchin wants to delay the coming vote, and that his colleague was part of the negotiations. Cruz knows it’s the dems that want to get this vote over with, so they can move on to other things.

3:43PM: Schumer is up now, appealing to make this a positive day, and vote for real gun control. He’s defending the Manchin-Toomey bill. Schumer says all this registration talk is paranoid delusions. What happens, Senator, to all the 4473s when gun dealers close?

3:48PM: Mike Johanns (R-NE): Speaking against Toomey-Manchin. He is cosponsoring Grassley-Cruz-Graham.

3:54PM: Toomey is up defending his deal. He’s noting the Second Amendment right doesn’t apply to children, criminals, and the mentally ill. He’s suggesting his bill does things the actual language of the bill just doesn’t support. Dave Kopel asks whether this means, in the Senator’s view, that Congress could ban practice by the young under adult supervision? Now he’s talking about the FOPA travel provisions, which are so poorly drafted as to be worse than useless, but that actually guts current FOPA protections.

4:00PM: TIME TO VOTE ON MANCHIN-TOOMEY

4:02PM: Manchin is up asking for votes for his and Toomey’s amendment. He, naturally, notes that the vote is For the Children (TM).

4:03PM: Grassley is up against Manchin’s amendments, noting background checks don’t work, and only work when combined with gun registration.

4:04PM: The roll is being called, so they can declare a quorum.

4:12PM: Voting is proceeding. Lautenberg is on the floor and voted. He was not expected to return to the Senate.

4:27PM: Manchin-Toomey goes down 54-46. It failed to achieve cloture.

4:29PM: The Grassley-Cruz-Graham substitute is up for a vote.

4:45PM: The Grassley-Cruz-Graham substitute fails 52-48.

4:46PM: The Leahy-Collins amendment is up for a vote. Cruz asks people to vote against, because it could ensnare honest citizens. This is the trafficking bill.

5:00PM: The Leahy-Collins Amendment fails 58-42.

5:03PM: Here we go with the National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Amendment.

5:04PM: Cornyn’s is speaking on behalf of his amendment, noting that it would be like a drivers’ license.

5:04PM: Schumer notes that every single police officer in America will tell you concealed carry would be a disaster. Really? He notes it’ll be mass chaos. Dogs and cats living together! It’s offensive to the New York way of life. Schumer should realize the Bill of Rights is a “way of life” for all Americans.

5:16PM: The Cornyn Amendment on National Reciprocity fails 57-43.

5:19PM: Feinstein Amendment banning so-called assault weapons and magazines holding more than ten rounds is up.

5:20PM: Feinstein is dismayed, which means I’m a happy camper. “Easy to shoot big clips!” “Large velocity guns.” She’s not making any sense at all. “This is a majority body!” We’ll see if she even cracks a majority. Oh man, she’s really upset. Good!

5:22PM: Chuck Grassley: “This would be the largest ban on guns in the history of our Republic.” Grassley goes on to describe how useless this kind of ban would be. He notes that it would not be constitutional. Grassley was getting pretty animated.

5:34PM: Feinstein Amendment goes down to defeat 40-60. DEFEATED!

5:40PM: The Burr Amendment is up.

5:40PM: Richard Burr (R-NC) speaks on behalf of his amendment to restore the gun rights of veterans who were puts in NICS because they can’t handle their own finances. This removes them without them having to petition.

5:41PM: Schumer is standing up against gun rights for veterans. Schumer is animated. He must really hate the rights of veterans.

6:00PM: The Burr Amendment fails by a vote of 56-44.

6:01PM: The Blumenthal-Lautenberg Amendment is up.

6:02PM: Senator Richard Blumenthal brings up the magazine ban, suggesting it’s only criminals who only use these things. But really, we ought to do this For the Children(TM).

6:03PM: Grassley rises in opposition, noting a study by the DOJ that showed the magazine ban had no affect on gun violence. He points out there are millions of these magazines out there, they are in common use, and the amendment is unconstitutional.

6:11PM: The Blumenthal-Lautenberg Amendment fails by a vote of 46-54. DEFEATED!

That will be all the voting on guns measures today. Voting on the Harkin Amendment will resume tomorrow. This has been a good day. Both magazine bans and gun bans failed to achieve even a bare majority.

Thus endeth our coverage for today.

149 Responses to “Live Coverage: The Senate Vote (Hopefully)”

  1. Ian Argent says:

    I’ll cue up the Jeopardy theme

  2. Cormac says:

    It’s so nice that both of my Senators (Cruz/Cornyn) can say things that make me proud…

    I know it’s rare, and I feel pretty blessed.
    (I just hope they keep it up)

  3. David W. says:

    So I’m on Cspan, I’m still kind of new to the whole watching-our-leaders-in-action… but I have a question.

    Shouldn’t those seats behind Cornyn be full of other senators rather than empty?

    • Sebastian says:

      They are in conference. The Senate is still in session, however, so floor business can still be conducted. That’s why you don’t see other Senators.

      • Dirk Diggler says:

        There are a bunch of hearing occurring at the same time – the senate is multi-tasking. This is just putting crap into the record and making an appearance for the folks back home.

        Two things: 1) Susan Collins voice is so damn annoying. If I were married to her, I would use a gun to kill myself

        2) It is clear she has not digested the M-T amendment for the problems that pro gun groups have raised. Why not offer to fix it instead??

    • joated says:

      You’re expecting them to sit around and actually listen to one another? How naive. ;-)

    • Countertop says:

      they never are. they have fundraisers, constitutent meetings (both for fundrainsing and other reasons), committee meetings and committee hearings (sometimes multiple conflicting ones), etc.

      What is said on the floor is meaningless and simple pontificating. Though it often times is designed to send speciific signals to one party or another. There is no debate. Only time you will see them on all in the room is during a vote itself, or when they are debating during prime time (and then during prime time in the time zone they are representing) or at night if some final passage of a major bill is occurring and they think constituents might be watching.

  4. Hill Country Dog says:

    John Cornyn (R-TX)is leading the way! Finally someone trying to not just prevent further takeover, but to restore Second Amendment rights.

    Go John Go.

  5. joated says:

    They still playing Chopin during quiet times on the floor? Or have they switched to Lalo Shifrin’s “Mission: Impossible” theme?

  6. Bubblehead Les says:

    I’m thinking that Reid will let the Anti-Freedom Bills get Shot Down so that he can move the 844 Page (CURRENTLY) Immigration Bill through ASAP. Stay Tuned.

    • Countertop says:

      this!

      they know where their political fortunes are buried. And I bet part of the deal here is kill the gun bigotry in order to advance the much more desirable immigration bill which actually gets Democrats votes rather than just losing voters they would otherwise have had. Like the environment, no one actually changes their vote because someone was MORE pro gun control. Unlike environment issues though, voters will certainly change their vote if their member is too anti gun. Like any retail store, the goal is to attract more buyers without losing those you have. You do that by offering more things they want, as long as those things don’t cause your existing customers to abandon you for the competition. That, in a nutshell, is why gun control always fails.

  7. Karl says:

    Manchin is sounding like a guy that knows he is going down to defeat.

  8. David W. says:

    HOLY FUCK ON A CRACKER

    DID MANCHIN JUST SAY THAT!?

    GLASS IS BREAKABLE AND IT SURPRISES HIM!

    WHAT THE FLYING FUCK DID WEST VIRGINIA ELECT?!

    • WhiskeyWasOnceMoney says:

      Manchin is the guy who wanted to ban Garbage Pail Kids bubble-gum cards back in 1986, when he was state treasurer in WV. Guess he figured he was ready for the big leagues.

      • Rob Crawford says:

        Was he personally insulted by some of the Garbage Pail Kids characters? Struck a little too close to home for him?

  9. Cormac says:

    I wonder what Manchin would say if he knew that there are people who build rifles in their garage…

    I’m sure he’d find a way to distort that.

  10. Patrick says:

    So Manchin is dancing in the blood of “babies”.

    He is defending a commission that will consider banning guns, and he defends it by saying we’ll get our voice heard in arguing that our guns should not be banned. This is “good”, in his eyes: we get a chance to complain about a ban.

    Our voices will be heard. Is West Virginia actually going to re-elect this guy?

    “Bulletproof Glass” on the first floor of schools. From here on out schools will be known as, “prisons”. And in the event of a typical electrical fire, they will be known as “death traps”.

    “If I can save only one life…”

    How about banning cheerleading?

  11. Cormac says:

    At this point you kind of have to wonder if he’s doing this on purpose…
    It’s like he wants to look as if he’s “compromising” but doesn’t want it to pass.

  12. Ian Argent says:

    Baroque: Adj: When you have no Monet

  13. Patrick says:

    Manchin is already saying he will probably vote for reciprocity. Same with Toomey.

    How does NRA score that one, especially if it actually passes?

    • Sebastian says:

      Hard to say. I mean obviously that vote will help his case, but you also have to consider he lead the effort to pass some kind of gun control.

      • If they get reciprocity, I’ll forgive them…heck, I’d accept an entire game of this in order to have reciprocity.

        I can still ALWAYS buy a gun illegally like the criminals if I want one off the government records.

        But not being allowed to carry, makes me unsafe on a daily basis.

    • Matt says:

      The reciprocity amendment does nothing to advance gun rights since it only applies (in its current form) to those who have licenses in their home state. Which means those in may or no issue states remain in their defenceless prison in the other states. And since many of those same may or no issue states do not recognize permits from anywhere else, you think a Federal law saying the out-of-state person is allowed to carry is going to matter when they already ignore FOPA?

      I’d get behind it if it included a Federal permitting option for those trapped behind enemy lines. State doesn’t want to issue you a permit? Fine, get a Federal carry permit and let the Federal government enforce the law against the states. Since they seem to demand Federal vs. State authority, how about some authority that enhances rights rather than contract them?

      Doesn’t matter. I don’t support this law at all anyway. We don’t need to make things double-illegal and create a minefield of transfer requirements so dense no sane gun owner would want to step into just so we can have carry rights in the parts of the country that remains free (for now). Sorry, I’ll take the status quo until we can get the Courts to finally pull a Brown vs. Board against the 2A holdouts who think rights are what they decide.

  14. Patrick says:

    For the Children, Part II

    Headlines rang with the shocking story that cheerleading is more dangerous than football citing the statistic that some 28,000 cheerleaders made trips to the emergency room in 2005. (Which is, by the way, a 600% increase over 1998.) To compound the serious injury factor, there were at least four serious incidents in the news relatively recently:

    Lauren Chang, a college student on an all star squad, died of a collapsed lung when she was accidentally kicked in the chest during a cheerleading competition.
    Patty Phommanyvong, a high school cheerleader, was tossed into the air and went limp when she was caught. She is now a comatose quadriplegic.
    Kristi Yamaoka garnered national attention when she fell from a two-and-a-half high pyramid. As she was carried off the floor, she began performing the motions to her school’s fight song as the band played. She suffered a bruised lung, broken neck and concussion, but she has now made a full recovery.
    Jessica Smith, who was also practicing a stunt where she was thrown up into the air, broke her neck and two verterbrae in her back.
    Rechelle Sneath is now paralyzed after being dropped when she was practicing a stunt and her teammates didn’t catch her. However, she’s thankful to be alive. She told the media that she had asked her coach for an additional spotter, but the coach told her she didn’t need one.

    Source: http://cheerleading.lovetoknow.com/Cheerleading_Statistics

  15. WR2A says:

    Your diligence and integrity in following this issue and keeping us all ‘in the loop’ is commendable! Thanks, Sebastian, because I couldn’t possibly keep up with it alone. This is a great service!

    Long Live the Republic, indeed.

  16. Dirk Diggler says:

    Maybe it is me, but Sen Blumenthal just looks like a pedophile. I dunno, but something about him strikes me as the guy who gets caught years after the fact and everyone just says, “yeah – he was a bit strange, esp for hosting sleepovers when he had no kids of his own”. . . . . just saying

    • HappyWarrior6 says:

      You know I thought something very similar last night looking at the man. He is about as weird looking a guy as Rep. Waxman.

  17. James says:

    Blumenthal himself is severely fact challenged. I would love to see a live Nugent/Pratt reaming on the floor of the senate.

    Oh. Also loved the Manchin “NRA lies” schtick too.

  18. Dirk Diggler says:

    Hey – it is the real pedophile senator up! Bring on the minor strippers . . . . .

  19. Dirk Diggler says:

    if there are 55,000 licensed dealers, then dividing by 5 gets 11,000 McD’s in the US. there a more than 11,000 mcDonalds out there. Ooops. another fact fail

  20. James says:

    BTW, Is watching the US Senate discuss civil rights oppression a drinking game? Obviously I need a liquor store run, but it is kinda early.

  21. Rob says:

    Him getting his underage girls panties in a wad over national carry and how someone can carry in his state when they couldnt pass thier background checks…who the fuck would wanna visitn Jersey anyway? This guys a total toolbag…

  22. Rob Crawford says:

    So ignorance of current law AND of the text of the bill is a requirement for serving in the senate?

  23. jerry says:

    Maybe the NRA should reconsider how they rate senators. Manchin has an A rating? Really? No kidding? West Virginia did u really elect this? Twice? Wow.

    • Sebastian says:

      Had an A rating. I doubt he’ll keep that. Prior to this he had a decent record as Governor.

      • Bitter says:

        It’s important to remember that NRA can only fairly issue a grade based on what lawmakers have already done, they can’t issue a grade for what may possibly happen in the future but there’s no way to know for sure. Look at the joke that has made of Alan Gottlieb and his attempts at lobbying and issuing endorsements for legislation that had barely been written and certainly didn’t have enough publicly proven votes for what he claimed it would become.

  24. Dirk Diggler says:

    Manchin is done. He knows he is toast and that is why he is kisisng ass. He hopes to get an appointment in the next administration in 2016 when his term is up.

  25. PT says:

    Lol.

    Burr’s iPhone is going off during a speech.

    There is a rule against cell phones on the Senate floor.

    Tom Coburn also pulled out his iPhone as well.

  26. David W. says:

    I dislike this murphy guy.

    If they were illegal, the coward would have used them anyway.

    Everything he did was illegal.

    G-d I wish there was an IQ test for lawmakers and elected officials. I know that would empty out 90% of the seats there but still, would be worth it.

    • David W. says:

      I give up. I tried. Murphy pissed me off a lot for some reason, more than the other idiots. I’m going to watch netflix now.

  27. David W. says:

    @Sebastian, Designated Marksmen in the US Army/Marines get Semi Auto M14s.

    But you are right, standard issue is never semi-auto only.

  28. Dirk Diggler says:

    Grassley just moved to pre-empt Reid. He is moving to have his amendment be a substitute for the M-T amendment. Nice. Parliamentary procedure at its finest. IIRC, they have to vote on the subsitute amendment first before getting to the underlying M=T bill. . . . .way to go Chuck!!

  29. James says:

    You know, I’m beginning to think this Senate process is more fun than a Paul filibuster would have been.

    I expressly wish a favorable turnout, but look forward to the cockroaches scattering when the lights go on. I dream of a statists disaster, whether dem or rep, in at least 2014.

  30. Matt R. says:

    I like the play by play online. It condenses it for us who can’t watch. Thanks for a great post today.

    Too bad about National Reciprocity. Hopefully, this will gain momentum and be viewed as a right like all the other government licenses that we have… I would like a reduction in the $200 tax stamp though, that would make suppressors a little more affordable, but I doubt that is coming anytime soon….

    –Matt R.

  31. PT says:

    CCRKBA PULLS SUPPORT OF MANCHIN-TOOMEY ALTERNATIVE OVER RIGHTS RESTORATION

    http://www.ccrkba.org/

    Quote:
    The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has withdrawn its support for the Manchin-Toomey alternative background check measure because a key amendment for restoration of firearms rights is not being considered.

    “Our support for this measure was contingent on several key provisions, the cornerstone of which was a rights restoration provision that is not on the schedule for consideration,” said a frustrated CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb. “This is not a reflection against Senators Joe Manchin or Pat Toomey, who are staunch Second Amendment advocates, and I want to thank them for all of their efforts to include as many protections for our gun rights as possible.

    End Quote:

    As I have stated before, the reason why SAF supported this is because Gottlieb is a convicted felon (tax evasion).

    They promised him rights restoration in the bill. They did not deliver.

    This bill was all about Gottlieb trying to get the ability to legally own a firearm restored.

    • Cormac says:

      So he was trying to sell us out for something that directly benefits him…

      Wow. I didn’t think I could lose this much respect for him in one day.

    • Arizona Rifleman says:

      Gottlieb already had his right to own a firearm restored years ago so it wouldn’t matter if that part of the bill was in there or not. Do you have any evidence that he was in this for personal gain?

      • PT says:

        My understanding is that Schumer had the program defunded years ago. I’d happily eat those words if you have a source saying that he had them restored.

        Gottlieb’s motivations are unknown to anyone, I’m just going with what I think is most likely. If he didn’t have his rights restored, then it would make sense why he’s getting all upset about the rights restoration issue.

        How high of a priority is rights restoration for the larger gun community? I wouldn’t say very high.

        • Arizona Rifleman says:

          In the next-most-recent post, Sebastian says that he had his rights restored before funding got cut off. I hope he’s accurate. :)

          I agree that it’s not a very high priority: I’d like to see it funded, at least, as I think that people should be able to petition to have their rights restored, but it’s not the #1 thing on my list.

    • Matthew Carberry says:

      To be fair, re-activating and funding the rights restoration process is necessary for justice and long overdue, -and- it provides a way to redefine what felony offenses (violent) should be disabling now that every damn thing is a felony.

      That said, Gottlieb sure deserves to be painted as a self-serving sell-out.

      • Matthew Carberry says:

        Unless he isn’t. ;) In that case he sure deserves to have his judgment questioned.

        • JC_VA says:

          I believe the SAF recently lost a case relating to restoration of a veteran’s rights. From what I read on a very critical article, it claimed they overreached. Maybe this was an ego trip of some sort to redress that failing. Who knows.

  32. Dirk Diggler says:

    oh lookie, our American Indian (*cough, bullshit!, cough*) Senator is up

  33. Hill Country Dog says:

    Any real American Indian should be all for the Second Amendment. After all, they were disarmed along with blacks back in the 18th and 19th Century.
    I can’t stand to listen to her drivel! What a waste of CSPAN time.

  34. Phillip says:

    Well, McCain just signed up to vote with the Democrats. % Didn’t see this coming % – Why does he have an R next to his name?

  35. Arizona Rifleman says:

    “2:47PM: John McCain (R-AZ) is up explaining why he’s supporting Toomey-Manchin.”

    Bastard. I’ve been trying to call him for hours but his voicemail is full and won’t accept new messages.

  36. James says:

    Schumer, Manchin et al. may just make my head explode. And I haven’t even begun the SenateBillofRightsOppression Drinking Game(TM) yet.

  37. brewerbob says:

    Schumer is a vile, evil, slack-witted, midget-minded braying jackass lying sack of crap. He has a low animal cunning that enables survival at a primitive level, enough for a political career. Doom on him and his ilk.

    • Bill says:

      Not just that! Sometimes he speaks!

      I can’t tell you how many form emails I get back from him with “I believe in the second amendment and I’m going to work to strengthen the protections therein… blah blah blah.”

      So I sent him the GOA oppose Manchin-Toomey form letter about what an evil lying jackhole he was.

  38. Dirk Diggler says:

    what about the ATF demanding multiple gun sale data from border state FFL’s despite law to the contrary to apply only to pistols?

  39. Archer says:

    RE: 3:54 PM:
    No, Mr. Toomey, the 2nd Amendment applies to everyone, unless there’s an overwhelming reason for it not to.

    Plus, you’re not talking about restricting the rights of children, criminals, and the mentally ill. You’re talking about restricting everyone else’s rights.

  40. Adam Z says:

    Here we go…for all the Marbles now…!!!!
    Let’s defeat this ill-conceived bill!

  41. Archer says:

    When they start talking about what it’s supposed to do (versus what the language actually will do), that damages my calm.

    The people charged with enforcing the law – that’d be the police, the prosecutors, the trial judges, and the juries – don’t have the luxury of considering the “legislative intent”. They need to enforce the law as it’s written. It’s not until you get to an appeals court that the intent is considered.

    I don’t think I’m alone in believing that if it has to get that far to see justice – after your reputation is permanently tarnished, your monetary resources are drained, your family is broken, your life is disrupted, your career is over, etc. – it’s a badly-conceived and -written law. Doubly so now that you’ll have to petition an unfunded group of bureaucrats to restore your rights, which never should have been lost in the first place.

  42. Jeff says:

    CSPAN can’t have an intent tallying votes on the screen?

    • Jake says:

      I can’t see C-Span video at all from their website. All I get is “content temporarily unavailable.”

  43. Jim says:

    Lautenberg rolled in for his “Aye” vote…

  44. Jeff says:

    Reid voted no?!?

  45. Jim says:

    54-46!!!! No Go!

    • Jim says:

      “Shame on you!” lonely scream coming from the gallery following the vote of no confidence on the Toomey-Manchin deal.

    • Jim says:

      I think a good ole fashion Johnny Drama “Victory!!!!!!!” scream is warranted today.

  46. Adam Z says:

    YES! YES! YES! Guess what Mr. VP Biden…That’s a Big F….in Deal!

  47. aerodawg says:

    Can I get a BOOYAH!

  48. Adam Z says:

    AWESOME!

    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294571-senate-rejects-tougher-background-checks-on-gun-purchases

    Democratic Sens. Mark Pryor (Ark.), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Begich (Alaska) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (Nev.) voted against it, Reid to preserve his ability to bring the measure up again.

    GOP Sens. John McCain (Ariz.), Susan Collins (Maine), Pat Toomey (Pa.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.) voted yes.

  49. Jeff says:

    Do you have summaries of the other amendments somewhere?

  50. ecurb says:

    re: 4:27PM
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!11!

    That is all.

  51. Clay says:

    American constitution-1

    Left Wing Bullshit-0

  52. Patrick says:

    McCain also voted for the Grassley amendment. Having it both ways. Reid voted against it. Toomey voted for it, too.

  53. Bill says:

    Is this it for a while? I’d like to focus on the states that just kicked their citizens in the jimmies.

  54. Patrick says:

    @Bill: Pretty much. This was a much watered down Gun COntrol bill and it couldn’t even get out of the Senate. Not only that, but the Dems cannot blame Republicans for being partisan. There were notable Dems on our side.

    So basically, Gun Control at the federal level is dead in Congress.

    But only for now.

  55. Lucky Forward says:

    Cigars for everybody on me ;-)

    Thank you Sebastian and Bitter for your herculaean efforts for keeping us informed!

    Thank you to my fellow citizens for calling, e-mailing, assembling, praying, and otherwise agitating to preserve our freedom!

    It looks like we won this battle. Let us savor it, as the war continues…

    • Bill says:

      Hear! Hear!

      Excellent job, hosts!

      • brobrandonb says:

        I’ll add to that, also. Sebastian and Bitter deserve major props for keeping up with all this and helping with alerts. I would not be half as involved (or perhaps half as effective) without solid, centralized information on all this.

        Nice job, guys. Maybe next time you are up here near Doylestown I can feed you a nice meal. ;)

  56. brobrandonb says:

    Nice Job, Team. I love it when all the phone calls, emails, letters, and trying to get friends and family involved feels like it really paid off.

    I would just urge caution, it’s tempting to treat this as the anti-civil-rights-activists swan song – but we can never, ever ever let our guard down.

    For a brief time tho, handshakes all around. And what should we do with Toomey now? Any chance he might be ripe to tap for pushing national reciprocity to make up for lost votes in his base? Hmmm….

  57. Jack Morris says:

    I am so relieved and excited today!
    This is excellent news. Now lets hope the Boston Bomber doesn’t turn out to be a right-wing-terroristTM who “worships” the NRA and has a “HUGE ARSENAL” consisting of a couple 22’s and an AR.

  58. Charlie Foxtrot says:

    Jumpin’ John McCain (R-ino) voted FOR Manchin-Toomey. When are Arizona voters going to put that old fraud out to pasture?

    • Shawn says:

      I hav already stated to his staffers i will never vote for him again because of this.

    • Flyover Terriatorialist says:

      Assuming he even runs again, it’ll be fascinating watching the primaries. Some locals think his actions infer that he’ll retire, and he’s just doing what he wants.

  59. fuzzy says:

    Does Schumer lie every time he opens his mouth?

    • Archer says:

      Pretty much, as far as I can tell.

      “Offensive to the New York way of life”…. You know, like Big Gulps. And baby formula in hospitals. And smoking. And trans fats. And anything else people happen to enjoy or that makes them happy.

  60. motomed says:

    lol @ Schumer’s concerns about states’ rights….

    • Archer says:

      Wasn’t he one of the guys saying we need strong Federal laws to restrict gun rights, because the States weren’t doing it like he wanted?

      And now, he’s complaining about Federal law trumping “States’ rights”?

      Bigotry in action, folks!

  61. Kenn says:

    Wah Wah Wah, here come the DiFi Waterworks.

  62. HappyWarrior6 says:

    Damn. Missed the DiFi meltdown…

    Did the Leahy amendment really only fail by 2 votes? Was there really more consensus on that than the Toomey-Schumer compromise?

    Nationwide concealed carry only failed by 3 votes. Wow.

  63. Kenn says:

    Smackdown!

  64. Joethefatman™ (@joethefatman1) says:

    Channeling a certain presidential candidate : EEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAA. The only time I want to hear Feinstein went down.

  65. Jim says:

    Mr. Schumer sure does not like the veterans who fight for his freedoms. Wow.

  66. Jim says:

    Some people are going to be pissed they paid $2k for LE6920s…

  67. Rob says:

    And Oblunder is on tv crying wolf, spreading lies and callin today a shameful day…for the gun grabbers

  68. fuzzy says:

    Did I really hear Schumer say the goal is to prohibit as many purple as they can?

  69. Jeff says:

    My count on Burr is 56-40, but now they seem to have stopped. Wonder what’s happening

  70. HappyWarrior6 says:

    Wow. The contempt they have for veterans…

  71. Jake says:

    I hope someone puts Feinstein’s meltdown on YouTube.

  72. Erin Palette says:

    Does this mean that gun control is now dead in Congress? Or do we have to worry about more bills being introduced later?

    • HappyWarrior6 says:

      I have no doubt in my mind they’ll keep pushing and pushing. Obama, Biden, Bloomberg, and their amen choir won’t live this one down and go silently into the night.

      • Erin Palette says:

        To be clear, I didn’t mean to suggest that we’d never have anything to fear ever again. I just want to know if I can unclench my buttocks for a while (until the next tragedy in a gun-free zone).

  73. James says:

    Is Harry Reid one of the biggest weasels on the planet? Or just a simple bag-O-fraud?

  74. ecurb says:

    Anyone know the best place to find detailed voting records on these? So far Govtrack only has Amdt. 715, which by the numbers appears to be Manchin-Toomey.

  75. Rwilson451 says:

    I wonder if feinstein is in her office kicking staffers. She only got 40 votes. What a kick in the teeth.

  76. Jim says:

    And now the time to find a deeply discounted brand new AR15 begins!

  77. James says:

    Sebastian (you too Bitter): Thanks so much for all your hard work and multitasking in helping to keep us free men. I don’t always agree with y’all on some stuff but you both deserve a medal [pins on medals]. Cheers!

    • Franksterm1 says:

      I’d like to echo everyone else’s thanks to both of you for all your hard work. This isn’t over by a long shot,hopefully this is a sign the tide is turrning.

  78. JC_VA says:

    Excellent news! I wasn’t able to post in work. Good work all round guys, and especially our generous hosts! Can we get a list of who we need to thank, and who we need to excoriate for each of the votes?

  79. Erin Palette says:

    Wait, what’s this Harkin Amendment?

  80. Charlie Foxtrot says:

    Sebastian, Bitter, THANK YOU!!!

    Excellent work! And I didn’t have to listen to C-SPAN!

  81. NewJerseyThomas says:

    Bravo!

    Well Done Senate, and well covered Sebastian and Bitter.

  82. fuzzy says:

    Did anyone record the fiery Feinstein flipout just before the 40-60 AWB vote? People have been posting cut down versions of it on youtube, but I haven’t been able to find the full “large velocity guns” speech as yet… and it was pure gold.

    • Charlie Foxtrot says:

      Did you see the BHO meltdown? He threw a Class A tantrum over his will being thwarted. Is that the level of emotional maturity in the White House?

  83. Laughingdog says:

    Is there a good spot to look to see exactly how everyone voted on the different amendments? It would be nice to know if Warner and Kaine voted consistently for gun control.

  84. wasntme says:

    “Manchin says that opponents to his amendment are people who don’t want to follow any laws…”

    If that were true the opponents wouldn’t give a damn about any laws they pass because they aren’t going to follow them anyway. Dumbass never caught on the the fact that laws only effect law abiding citizens.

    Hey Manchin, the NRA called and wants their card back.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Manchin-Toomey 54-46 (Check out Sebastian’s Minute by Minute coverage) | N.U.G.U.N. - New User of GUNs Blog - [...] http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/04/17/live-coverage-the-senate-vote-hopefully/ [...]
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