Senator Greg Ball of NY on The #2A Sellout

“Goodnight, and I voted No, and I only wish, I could have done it twice”:

Tomorrow I will talk about next steps for New Yorkers. Governor Cuomo shut democracy, and the voice of gun owners, down tonight. We must not let that happen again. There will soon be a time to be heard in New York, as we fight this in the federal courts.

69 thoughts on “Senator Greg Ball of NY on The #2A Sellout”

  1. Why limit mags to 7 rounds? Does this bill ban the M-1 rifle 8 round clip? Does the ban also go after the M-1 rifle itself?

    If it does then Gov. Cuomo will have succeeded where even the Axis failed, by stripping the M-1 rifle from the hands of New Yorkers.

    1. Without reading the law or an analysis of it, it’s hard to see how Garands won’t be banned, the 8 round magazine is after all in the rifle itself.

      Perhaps you could use clips with 7 or fewer rounds (they make those for competition), perhaps they’ll get an SKS like exemption like California’s, perhaps like Californa’s that’ll get revoked later … but the Garand is the only significant weapon I can think of with an 8 round magazine, so I tend to think getting them off NY State’s lawn was why they set it at 7 vs. 8.

      BTW, it’s technically not over since the Assembly (lower house) will take it up at 10 am this morning, but no one is expecting joy from it.

      BTW, another example of election have consequences: in 1998 ACORN set up their own political party (NY State is uniquely friendly to third parties), the Working Families Party, and it eventually tipped the balance of the Senate, which had previously kept the state vaguely sane in gun control.

    2. I remember a few years back reading about Obama signing an order to keep a large number of M-1 rifles from being returned from South Korea to the U.S. I believe the rifles had been stored in S. Korea after the Korean War in case of future “hostilities”. I also remember reading that a large quantity of .50 MG ammo was taken out of storage in S. Korea and sent to U.S. troops in Iraq during the 2nd Gulf War. Apparently manufacturers could keep up with demand at the time.

  2. There is only one option- the courts. I hope to god the SAF comes to the rescue

    1. This is going to hit so many people in the state there had better be a lot of support for a lawsuit from its gun owners, and perhaps the NRA proper. Of course, getting the SAF involved would be the best since they’re closely aligned with Gura, who’s currently the best at this. But, man oh man is he going to be busy….

    2. There is another option, but it requires people stand up and act quickly and loudly.

      Maryland passed a tax on some small computer services businesses in this state back in 2007. They did it the same way: dead of night, etc. But it was law.

      Those small businesses got together at near light speed and formed a coalition. They got a legislator to introduce a bill overturning that tax law, and then they got thousands of people to contact their lawmakers repeatedly. Business owners showed up at the capitol for the first time in their lives and testified in favor of repeal.

      The law was repealed several weeks later.

      I just got off the phone with a New Yorker who told me that news of the ban came down while he was bowling. He was in upstate New York, where most people avoid politics much like everyone else avoids the flu. He said the word went through the building like fire, and anger built.

      The question for NY is whether they can direct that anger where it needs to go: the state house. If a lawmaker introduces a bill to overturn, and if the citizens fight like hell to support it, then at least a fight will have been made. That lawmaking session is not over.

      Don’t give up in New York. Don’t pray to Alan Gura. Get out there and get moving.

      1. I don’t think that’s a good example for two reasons: Coumo is really committed to this law, so the margin would have to beat his veto, and Maryland was uniquely vulnerable to people simply moving from Montgomery and PG county (where most of these businesses were, supplying services to the Federal government) across the river to Northern Virginia. This area seldom has serious real estate downturns, and the move would save a lot on taxes not even considering the new one.

        1. This already passed without any support from Upstate.

          Face it: NYC and its ‘burbs dominate the rest of the state. People in upstate don’t get a say in this issue in Albany.

          1. Perhaps it’s time for Upstate to seceed from New York City. That would certainly make life interesting!

            Sadly, it will also mean that “Upper New York State” and “New York State” will get four senators instead of two…but I suspect that about half of those will more likely be Republican…

    1. Yes; the lower house, the Assembly, takes it up at 10 am this morning according to the AP, no joy is expected from it.

  3. It would have been better if he’d channeled Heston and hoisted a musket above his head at the end.

    That’s really the options for gun owners once the courts fall through. Only an idiot or someone who has to pass a poly test for work would register more than one range toy firearm, if even that. Based on the demographics in NY they can look forward to any registered firearms being serious screwed with: the registration period will be cut from 5 years to 2 to 1, you’ll be outed on a website like a sex offender, fees will increase, eventually confiscation will be on the table. So its either sell your guns, move them out of state, move yourself, or defy the law.

    1. It’s all about control of people, not just guns. I think I first day this quote here somewhere.
      “Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against—then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted—and you create a nation of lawbreakers—and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.”

      Who is John Galt? Seems more and more real everyday…

      1. Well, the other option to “going Galt” (fleeing to PA?) is to resist.

        I’m sure a huge number of people will quietly defy the law. Canada never had greater than 60% compliance with their registry efforts.

        I’d love to see some sort of upstate counties take a vocal stand against the law, using their local LEOs and magistrates to defy it and hamper the efforts of state authorities to enforce it. Herkimer County, home of Remington’s Ilion factory, would be a prime place to start but I’m sure plenty of counties in the upstate are unhappy about this. What’s the state going to do if confronted with such local resistance from the upstate? Revoke their town charter? Dissolve their local assembly? Hrm… Sounds familiar.

        Obviously other options are available but I think if options to withdraw are viable to PA or elsewhere that is wiser if lawsuits don’t work.

  4. So…..where do ICORE competitors (or anyone else, for that matter) using S&W 627s wind up? Are 327, 627 and Taurus 608 owners expected to have one chamber in the cylinder plugged, lest they become regarded with great disfavor by their betters in Albany?

    (That may sound ridiculous, since the guns listed above are revolvers, but are moon clips “ammunition feeding devices” under NY law?)

    I would have to assume that anyone still living in NY state (or CA, for that matter) after about April 2013 is simply not worth listening to on any topic of importance.

    1. Some people won’t have a choice. Much of the time it comes down to family, career, age, or health. Often it is money, as in not having any with which to move, even if all the other reasons to stay were evaporated.

  5. Sad, but not unexpected. I commented on an earlier post that the states is where these people will have success. The voters of New York elected democrats to positions of power. This is what can happen when u do that.

  6. The Second Amendment died in New York State last night. Wherever you live, remember this moment, January 14-15, 2013, when millions of law-abiding Americans had their freedom destroyed by a tyrannical government. And never forget that it can happen in your state one day, too.

    The only good news to come of this is that I can keep my 10 and 8-round magazines (but legally I can only load 7 rounds into them). But as soon as Cuomo signs this today, New Yorkers can’t purchase magazines that hold more than 7 rounds. And Midway is all sold out.

    New handgun purchases will be limited to revolvers, 1911s, Sig P220s, and compact pistols.

    1. Any tinkerer out there experimenting with other than lead bullets? Any known work in ceramics?

      Smaller mags equals needing stopping power.

      1. Ceramics are lightweight and otherwise entirely wrong for the purpose.

        Now, since the M1911 has fit my hand like a glove since I was a teen, I stick to this fantastic design by John Moses Browning (PBUH). And all things being equal, with self-defense handgun velocities lethality scales with the number of holes put in someone, stopping power with the diameter of the bullet; I use Gold Dot to get the best of the latter.

        You might check out Barnes copper bullets, but I’m not sure they make sense in the normal 9 mm/.40 S&W/.45 ACP self-defense rounds. 9 mm is plenty high energy for its diameter, overpenetration is frequently a problem in this general diameter which includes the .357 stuff, so with plenty of velocity and resulting energy to work with any good hollowpoint design should suffice (with the caveat that many are designed to satisfy the FBI’s barrier penetration requirements over stopping power, that’s why I use Gold Dot). .40 S&W is pretty much a compromise between the other two with the advantage that it’s small enough many 9 mm designed can be bored out to accommodate it, and of course I hope many companies are now designing for both.

          1. I should emphasize this is The Word according to Martin Fackler and his “school”. There are others, most especially Marshall and Sanow, but putting on my scientist cap I have to agree with Fackler and other critics that the data from which they draw their conclusions doesn’t even come close to being able to support them (“one shot stops” in the field, but not hardly enough info about them).

            Ah, and something I read recently would put even more doubt on them, that about 50% of criminals who are shot immediately stop because they don’t want to get shot again (Trayvan Martin is the most recent notorious example).

            Anyway, you can do you own research (e.g. start from the Wikipedia link above or search on the names of the other two); I just wanted to point out my biases and why I have them.

  7. Of course now all the hundreds of thousands of Ruger 10/22 owners, who didn’t get involved, will now discover that loading more than seven rounds in the magazine will make the a criminal.

    1. In all fairness, how long did they have to a) learn of this new peril and b) do anything about it?

  8. Anyone care to weigh in on this scenario?

    I buy an M1A with a ten round mag, but only load 7 in. Is this legal? Or can we no longer buy 10 round mags at all, but only get to keep what’s already there?

    1. If you have a 10 round mag you can keep it. But you can only load 10. You cannot buy new 10 round magazines. If you have magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, they have to go.

      1. Err, don’t you mean you can only load 7?

        How long do people have to dispose of their new contraband?

            1. Thanks, Bitter. I’ll have to read it when I get home it won’t load properly on phone. Local store is full of a mix of new and veteran gun owners and no one is happy. They have plenty of firearms, just not the popular calibers.

  9. I’m only slightly surprised that the good people of NY State have not descended on Albany and turned the place into smoking, smoldering ruins.

  10. I’ve offered Sanctuary here in Ohio for a friend’s Firearms and Magazines who lives in Upstate New York. And it looks like people in Maryland might be facing the same Dilemma soon. Everyone who can help out might want to think about doing that for those Friends and Relatives who will soon be declared “Enemies of the State.”

    But if Obama decides to “Clone” the New York Laws, well, we all might be behind the Iron Curtain soon.

    But not for long.

    1. No sanctuary. NY citizens need to fight this publicly. It does not help anyone to assist with compliance with these idiotic gestures. The best way to help is to finance SAF’s efforts.

  11. Last night I was informed that the State of New York can detain someone as mentally ill for owning an over-sized magazine. Allegedly, this in one of the tools to paint broad strokes and help eliminate more gun owners.

    Can anyone verify is this is legitimate?

    1. Well, a National Geographic stuffed with adverts is a menace.

      But no, I haven’t seen that. I’m sure it could be construed that way by an unscrupilous Dr. with an issue with guns.

      This is screaming out for abuse.

      1. I’m going to check back and see if I can’t get the source of the information. The Second Amendment was the topic of choice at my local LP meeting last night and this worrisome tidbit was tossed out there. I may have missed the context but the person relaying the info is credible and not one to rush to conclusions.

  12. From todays Newsday: It doesn’t look like it’s watered down at all if this is accurate. It keeps registration and licensing:

    Provisions in a sweeping gun control bill before the New York Legislature:

    –Further restrict assault weapons to define them by a single feature, such as a pistol grip. Current law requires two features.

    –Make the unsafe storage of assault weapons a misdemeanor.

    –Mandate a police registry of assault weapons.

    –Establish a state registry for all private sales, with a background check done through a licensed dealer for a fee, excluding sales to immediate relatives.

    –Require a therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat to use a gun illegally to report the threat to a mental health director who would then have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient’s gun could be taken from him or her.

    –Ban the Internet sale of assault weapons.

    –Require stores that sell ammunition to register with the state, run background checks on buyers of bullets and keep an electronic database of bullet sales.

    –Restrict ammunition magazines to seven bullets, from the current national standard of 10. Current owners of higher-capacity magazines would have a year to sell them out of state. Someone caught with eight or more bullets in a magazine could face a misdemeanor charge.

    –Require that stolen guns be reported within 24 hours. Otherwise, the owner would face a possible misdemeanor.

    –Increase sentences for gun crimes including for taking a gun on school property.

    –Increase penalties for shooting first responders, called the “Webster provision.” Two firefighters were killed when shot by a person who set a fire in the western New York town of Webster last month. The crime would be punishable by life in prison without parole.

    –Limit the state records law to protect handgun owners from being identified publicly. The provision would allow a handgun permit holder a means to maintain privacy under the Freedom of Information law.

    –Require pistol permit holders or those who will be registered as owners of assault rifles to be recertified at least every five years to make sure they are still legally able to own the guns.

    Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    1. Require a therapist who believes a mental health patient made a credible threat to use a gun illegally to report the threat to a mental health director who would then have to report serious threats to the state Department of Criminal Justice Services. A patient’s gun could be taken from him or her.

      There’s nothing objectionable here except the focus on guns; therapists should already be doing this sort of thing, and if the Aurora shooter’s university hadn’t washed their hands of him after he withdrew he very possibly would have been stopped (stopped in the long term, who knows, although if they could have put him in prison for making explosives that would have deferred the problem).

      Limit the state records law to protect handgun owners from being identified publicly. The provision would allow a handgun permit holder a means to maintain privacy under the Freedom of Information law.

      Ah hah, it’s a “compromise“! Gun owners got something in return, they should be happy with this crumb….

  13. My thoughts go to what many in NY will do. I will suspect many will try to leave the State. It happened over time in NJ, with many people fleeing NJ for better taxes, gun laws and freedoms here in PA.
    NY city raised taxes on the rich, the rich left. Telecommuting is here. Now this, and the States will continue to divide by philosophy. I don’t see this ending well for the Nation.

    1. To repeat a quote I used earlier:

      “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.

      Are we willing to leave our brethren in bondage in these 8 severely anti-gun states (with more to perhaps follow)?

      You’re right; if you assume the Supremes, following the universal? Federal court pattern of not defending “assault weapons” issue a RKBA version of Dred Scott this is will not end well.

    2. My wife and I were discussing options, but are waiting on Obama said move. If he does the same to other states before we can establish residency, we’re out a ton of money with no gain.

    3. It may work out well for PA if more freedom-loving people move here.

      Normally, I don’t like when folks from NJ & NY move to PA because they tend to take their voting habits with them. However, pro-2A refugees are more than welcome to come.

  14. If you are in NYS email your assemblyman NOW!

    I actually got a response in less than half an hour.

    I sent this (I removed personal info):
    I will not accept scapegoating and votes have consequences. Vote AGAINST any and all gun or magazine regulations. New York has enough already and they don’t work. Attacking the Bill of Rights will not make anyone safer and it is a distraction from the real issues.

    I am now a single issue voter and if stand with me on this issue I will do everything I can to keep you in office.

    If you fail to protect New Yorker’s Second Amendment guaranteed rights, I will actively work to see you out of office. You have done many great things and I would very much like to keep supporting you.


    “XX, New Yorker”

  15. I was so excited when I moved back upstate a couple years ago from NYC and took possession of my pre-ban AK, 10/22 and mags that a friend had been holding into for me for the 15 years I was down there. My parade has just been rained on. Or pissed on, rather.

    1. Being a native of New York now living in Texas, it is difficult for me to adequately express my sadness. Today the state will effectively un-ratify the Constitution of the United States.

      1. Errr, that point was reached some time ago, perhaps even as early as the Sullivan Act was passed in 1911 and enforced with discrimination.

        I.e. the state certainly passed this threshold with its previous AW ban; that this one is even nastier is a difference in detail, not principle. It’s why a whole bunch of us who have no or little desire to own a machine gun are so upset with the Hughes Amendment; it established the precedent that specific guns could be outright banned that was later used in all the AW bans.

        And then there’s it allowing only 40,000 or so of its 8 million subjects in NYC to even legally own guns (a bit more than 21,110 by my count of Gawker’s 2 year old handgun permit list, which matches a report I saw elsewhere that said there were also even fewer long gun permits).

      2. Motor-T

        New York state is my native state too. A very sad day indeed. I found myself reading parts of the bill and saying in my head, “They can’t be this stupid?!” 7 rounds in a 10 round magazine, really?

  16. The people of the state of New York Elected these people. I find it hard to believe that they were unaware of the nature of Cuomo and the Sheldon Silvers that hold power in albany. Perhaps they are fine with this sort of infringement on their rights. I have not seen any great protest march or signs of outrage. Cuomo will probably be relected easily in 2 yrs.

    1. I certainly did not vote for these tyrants! But I agree, Cuomo will easily win re-election. New York is dominated by the liberal elites and the welfare crowd, and both groups want liberal/progressives like Cuomo in power.

  17. Well, the good news is that highly motivated individuals intent on carrying out a mass shooting will only be able to load 7 rounds into their 10 round or pre-ban 20 & 30 round magazines, since it would be illegal to do otherwise.

  18. I think this is a stalking horse—our response to this might dictate if they try this in other states or on a federal level.

  19. “…from the current national standard of ten.”

    Leftover verbiage from pre-94, wishful thinking, or accidental disclosure of an upcoming move by DC?

  20. Luger, 8 rd mag. P38, 8 rd mag. Makarov, 8 rd mag.

    I see they plan to arm their neo-Stasi/Gestapo/NKVD in the classic style (retro is so hip) and don’t want them outgunned.

  21. Wow, de facto confiscation of non-compliant magazines and background checks for buying ammunition. Dear lord, I feel bad for the people of New York.

  22. We need Senator Ball on TV in (to paraphrase Boondock Saints) EVERY MAJOR CITY!

    No, really…the guy’s a good speaker for our cause. Can we recruit him?

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