Taking Clayton to Task

Over at The Other Sebastian’s. I’ve said before I don’t agree with Clayton on this stuff. I agree that the people in those pictures are weird (Not work safe, or really safe anywhere. Don’t say I didn’t warn you), and that’s definitely not my kind of fair, but other than thinking they are a few dune buggies, an autogyro, and a big tanker trunk away from making a pretty good movie, it’s not something I’m liable to get too worked up over. I kind of expect San Francisco to be creepy at this point.

But either way, do we know that the majority of the gay community condones this stuff? None of the gay people I know would be caught dead at something like this. I would be wary of painting an entire group of people with so large a brush, lest people do the same to us. I think most gay people are no more S&M freaks than gun owners are government hating militia types.

UPDATE: For the record, if people are into that stuff, I have no problem. By the same token, I don’t really care of a bunch of guys want to get dressed up in fatigues and go play army. Not my kind of thing, but I support people’s right to do either.

37 Responses to “Taking Clayton to Task”

  1. Jym says:

    As both Sebastians have pointed out, there are a lot of similarities here to the gun community. This is really the equivalent of being in a place that allows open carry, and doing so in front of a bunch of anti-gun protesters, just to piss them off.

    It amazes me that Clayton falls for this hook, line, and sinker. This isn’t indicative of any sort of moral disease or something equally ridiculous. This is people going out of their way to give the finger to those who judge them based on illogical dogma, exactly the same as many gun owners love to do to their illogical dogmatics.

  2. dwlawson says:

    Trust me there are plenty of straights that behave in the exact same way…but usually behind closed doors…

  3. I must be missing the “gee kinky sex is bad and God hates fornication” gene. :)

  4. anon says:

    Even with those pictures, you aren’t getting the complete picture. Check out (definitely NOT at work) the pics over at zombietime. The outrage isn’t about poofs in leather. The outrage is about the pre-op trannies walking down the street with their junk hanging out, the public blowjobs, and the rubber Jesus buttplugs. It’s beyond creepy, it’s pretty degenerate stuff.

    I don’t walk down the street waving an AR-15 in peoples faces to support gun rights. If I did, I’d expect a lot of backlash and I’d expect to do more damage than good for the cause. And that’s exactly what the flamers are accomplishing here…

  5. Sebastian says:

    Oh, I don’t disagree that stuff hurts their community. But I wouldn’t paint the entire, or even most, of the homosexual community with that brush. Some members of their cause are more about shocking people than persuading them. The same can be said of our cause.

  6. Jadegold says:

    The fact is folks like Cramer, Lott and Nugent serve a very useful purpose in the gunloon community. Like the last part of the 2A, gunloons are willing to pretend the excesses, lies, and frauds of gunloons don’t exist. The next time a Cramer or a Lott or a Nugent excretes something you like–the gunloon community will be there to lap it up.

    As I’ve correctly noted before (and will again), there is a large segment of the gunloon community that shares the views of racists and bigots. You can see it at gunshows and you see it in NRA publications like “Freedom in Peril.” There is a great utility in creating a perception that white males are under attack–be it from non-whites, gays, etc.

  7. thirdpower says:

    Fine butterbar, define “large segment”. You still have never produced the sales numbers of your claims that gun owners are lining up to buy racist books.

    You “note” things all the time. Most of them have been incorrect.

  8. Jadegold says:

    I am always correct, it’s a gift, Third.

    Again, I would note the NRA may be a terrorist organization but they’re not dummies. That’s why they paid beaucoup bucks to produce crap like “Freedom in Peril” portraying white gunowners as under attack from minorities, gays, Jews, etc. They understand their base.

  9. thirdpower says:

    Thanks for the laugh butterbar. Keep posting. You help us out with each keystroke.

  10. Weer'd Beard says:

    I have no problem with whatever form of sex, drugs, and Rock-n-Roll gets a body happy. Now when it comes to a public street with children there:

    Now I’m less libertarian-minded.

    BTW here are the zombitime pictures. HEED THE WARNING

    Do what you want behind closed doors all you want. When you step outside, make it a point to act civilized

  11. Yosemite Sam says:

    “Thanks for the laugh butterbar. Keep posting. You help us out with each keystroke.”

    Funny you should say that. When I was learning about RKBA several years ago, it was comments like JadeGold’s, and his in particular that turned me into a gun rights advocate. So he has recruited at least one for the cause.

  12. Linoge says:

    As usual, I tend towards being one of those people that both sides tend to hate – I do not support homosexual “marriages”, but I do not think the government has any place in the marriage business to begin with.

    I agree with Weer’d Beard above, though. Do what you want in your own home. Get naked. Get freaky. Boff whomever you like, however you like, however often you like. It is your home, your certain place of refuge and solitude, and you are not subjecting anyone else to your actions.

    The second you take a step outside and come into the public eye, however, the “all bets are off” clause is… well… off. If nothing else, common courtesy dictates you should be considerate of other people. In this particular case (and, I admit, I have not bothered to check the images), I have to wonder what laws/ordinances there are concerning public nudity, sexual acts, and all the rest taking place in public. I also have to wonder if the same acceptance would be transpiring if it was a group of heterosexuals parading and performing similar acts, similarly clothed.

    As for Clayton, the Other Sebastian is correct – he is a bigot, at least concerning the topic of homosexuals. That said, I do not, at all, agree with their actions or displays at this festival, but I have explained the reasonings for that above.

    At any rate, a little late, but welcome to the club Yosemite Sam… it is good to know that trolls are still good for something!

  13. thirdpower says:

    Just as a reminder, as much as our local butterbar likes to squeel about “gunloons” and their biases, it was the unethical actions of the PuSH’ers that brought a certain graduate school student to prominence.

  14. Jadegold says:

    Yosemite Sam’s not telling the truth. In fact, a quick perusal of his blog notes his gunloonery came about because he was chagrined about gun control laws in MA that his aged wife didn’t care for. No mention is made of me or other responsible parties.

    IOW, YS is just another angry white guy.

    WRT Linoge’s prudish puffery, he apparently has never witnessed Mardi Gras. Of course, he attended a second tier school but I’d imagine even such schools have fraternities and other episodes of conspicuous excess.

  15. Sebastian says:

    Jadegold has quite the dossier of gun bloggers going on. I wonder what he knows about me.

  16. Yosemite Sam says:

    God, you are an asshole, JG. I guess that’s what trolls do. I have no idea why Sebastian puts up with your crap. But, thanks for the hit, BTW.

    I’m not lying one whit. We moved to Massachusetts; my wife was trying to get a gun permit; I saw the crap she had to put up with to get one; I started reading and researching the issue and rude, arrogant comments like yours(you have been a troll for a long time) helped make me decide to become a gun rights advocate.

    “IOW, YS is just another angry white guy.”

    LMAO. You really have no clue.

  17. Jadegold says:

    Sebastian: I know your namesake at PGP is a censor.

  18. Sebastian says:

    A censor as in he censors posts? Or a censor as in he works for the FCC or something?

  19. Jadegold says:

    YS: I think we’ve established you failed to tell the truth. In your own blog, you explained the convoluted irritable mental gestures that led to you being a gunloon. Nowhere were my comments (or anyone elses) mentioned. It was all about your aging wife’s dismay at having to be responsible vis a vis her gun fetish.

    Just another angry white guy.

  20. Jadegold says:

    A censor as in he censors posts?

    Comment censor. So much for reasoned discourseâ„¢.

  21. Sebastian says:

    I have a strong aversion to having this be anything other than an open forum, with anyone able to present their views, even ones we strongly disagree with. That’s not to say anything goes, but I don’t think Jade has crossed the line yet.

  22. Sebastian says:

    And just so you know, taking stabs at a fella’s wife in that manner is getting kind of close to the line. I’m OK with Jade’s insulting remarks towards us as gun owners and as bloggers, but let’s try to not make this too personal, shall we?

  23. Jadegold says:

    I respond in the same manner as I’m treated, Sebastian.

  24. triticale says:

    At the last gun show I attended, I noted a vendor selling antique centerfire cartridges, and another selling Viet Nam War memorabilia. By JG’s logic, I’m probably interested in collecting such items.

  25. Yosemite Sam says:

    “I respond in the same manner as I’m treated, Sebastian.”

    And dude, if you had the balls to say what you said about my wife to my face, you would be on the ground.

  26. thirdpower says:

    And what evidence do you have JG? You also happen to “know” that Kevin Baker banned you from Saysuncle and deleted your posts. None of which was true.

    Why don’t you post the e-mail that you sent to Tom King that resulted in your banning there?

  27. Sebastian says:

    Sorry Jade, saying a guy’s wife is old and pontificating about her fetishes is not something I’ve seen anyone attack you with, or anything even close to that level of personal.

  28. Yosemite Sam says:

    “Nowhere were my comments (or anyone elses) mentioned.”

    So I have to mention every aspect of my research in a post from 3 years ago. I’ve been seeing your nonsense for years JG. There’s no telling how many “GunLoons” you have created.

  29. Yosemite Sam says:

    “or anything even close to that level of personal.”

    He had to get personal Sebastian because he realized how many “gunloons” he has helped create with his ad-hominen, disgusting comments.

  30. Jadegold says:

    YS: If you take one away one thing, it’s that I’d have absolutely no problem saying anything I write to anyone’s face. No problem whatsoever.

  31. Yosemite Sam says:

    You must get your ass kicked alot then, JG

  32. thirdpower says:

    Said from behind a screen.

  33. Jadegold says:

    Why don’t you post the e-mail that you sent to Tom King that resulted in your banning there?

    No problem. It’s here on my site.

  34. Jadegold says:

    Screwed up the link, here it is.

    You must get your ass kicked alot then, JG

    Nope. Hasn’t happened since I was a junior in high school and I made the mistake of wising off to a bouncer in a bar. I think he hit me with everything in the bar–chairs, tables, a bottle, etc.

  35. Yosemite Sam says:

    So you don’t go around insulting guys wives to their face like you do behind the anonymity of the computer screen.

  36. thirdpower says:

    Thank you again for showing just how dishonest you are even in your own post. You claim he banned you for citing the VPC. He banned you after he deleted one of your posts and you started insulting him.

    Even in the comments you continued to deny you responded to edited versions of posts to make false claims even when the posts are shown. Now again you’re going to play the “administrator privilege” game just to distract from the fact that you were FOS.

    Of course w/ your history, I’m sure that’s not the entire e-mail.

  37. Sebastian says:

    Closing down comments on this guys. This has veered way off topic, and is just going down hill fast.