Anyone else noticed the large number of comments from hunters on our blogs defending Jim Zumbo, while at the same time being rather derogatory toward our community? I can’t blame them for being a little angry given how some in our community have been behaving, but a lot of them seem to be pretty ill informed about the issues. So I have a message for them.
A Message To Hunters
We’re not pissed off at Jim Zumbo because we think hunting with “assault weapons” is great (though, if someone wants to, I don’t see what the issue is, if the game is appropriately small for those calibers). We’re pissed off at Jim Zumbo because he a) called our rifles “terrorist rifles” (the anti-gun folks will love to use that one), and that he suggested they be banned from the prairies (another great gem for the anti-gunners). It’s not so much we’re pissed off about the insult, though that is part of it, it’s that this gives a tremendous boost to the anti-gun organization who want to ban scary looking rifles.
Hunting is already in decline, and if you think the image of a guy chasing after a deer with an AK-47 might not be the best image for hunting, I think you’re entitled to that opinion, and I can see your point. But poor image is not the most serious problem for the hunting culture. The declining number of people who participate in the sport is, and that has more to do with fundamental demographic issues than image. But one sure way to make hunting go into a population free fall is for the anti-gunners to end up back on the offensive.
Oh sure, they claim they aren’t coming after your hunting rifle, but if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Take a look at two states that the anti-gunners hold up as their examples of states that have gun laws closer to what they would like: Massachusetts and New Jersey. There are others, but these are states I know. Ask anyone in these two states how healthy their hunting culture is. Ask them how they like spending hundreds of dollars on the licensing that’s required to own a gun, even an air gun (in the case of NJ). Ask them how much they like having to ask the police permission to possess, or continue to possess, their deer rifle or duck gun. In Massachusetts, let a cartridge slip out of your case after a weekend of hunting, your wife takes the car the next day and doesn’t have the appropriate licenses, gets into an accident, and the police discover the round: say goodbye to your wife for a year. She’s now a felon, and there’s a one year mandatory minimum in Massachusetts for even very minor violations of their insane gun laws.
The anti-gun folks aren’t done in either of these states by far. So don’t believe them when they tell you they just want reasonable gun laws and are concerned about violence. That’s what they tell you to buy your acquiescence.
What happened in these two states, and others, is the future that the anti-gunners want to bring to hunting. If you hunters are OK with that, well, don’t cry to hard when most of your fellow hunters decide it’s not worth the hassle, and groups like the Humane Society of the USA and PETA get the political clout to ban hunting. Don’t think it would ever happen? Ask hunters in New Jersey how well their bear hunt went this year. They will ask, “What bear hunt?” Governor Corzine, under political pressure, stopped the bear hunt, despite a burgeoning bear population in The Garden State, and successful and safe hunts happening in previous years.
Understand one thing, hunters, we black rifle shooters are willing to stand with you on these hunting issues, because we recognize that hunters are a part of our community, and we need every man we can get. We understand giving even an inch of ground to the anti-gun and anti-hunting people is an inch closer toward prohibition on each of our respective sports. I’m sorry so many in the black rifle community are so angry that they are insulting hunting and hunters. It’s time for both sides to calm down and start figuring out how to work together.
24 thoughts on “When Hunters Attack”
I like your blog and have added your site to my link list.
If you would prefer to not be linked by me, let me know and I’ll remove it.
Thanks and like I said, nice blog!
Ride Fast & Shoot Straight
Hi Fodder. No problem with the link.
The only way we can work together is if the hunters come our way. Sorry, but compromise is not permitted under the Constitution and if they don’t come our way we are right where we are now. Our way defends them. They’re way defends them, but throws us under the bus. i am not willing to help throw me under the bus so the hunting majority will like me.
They need to join us in protecting the rights of us ALL.
I agree with you Straightarrow. Hunters that aren’t willing to get behind the RKBA and actively undermine other parts of the shooting community, we have no use for, and I won’t raise even the slightest voice in their defense. But I’m willing to welcome them into the fold, even if they aren’t hard core black riflemen, as long as they recognize that the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutionally protected right we all share and all have to defend. If they understand that, I will consider them friends. If not, they can kiss my ass.
I like what you are saying but everyone needs to drop the “them and us” stance or you have allready lost your battle. The distinction between hunter and shooter is irrelevant to the argument. The battle will always be for our rights as citizens of a country. If divided, gun owners will loose there rights. Hunting is a different set of laws. Each state governs populations. That will never change. We will never have the right to shoot anything we want. Because that is use of the tool we have choose to regulate. If you want to get into that fight man there is a lot more hairs to split. The big thing we have to maintain is our right to shoot. Our right to own a piece of technology. Because in the end, all guns are just machines. A mechanical device design to launch a piece of ordinence. It is our right to use technology and own it as a citizen. The government, is elected by us. It is votes that matter. If you want to make your message heard, show people in the polls where you stand. People forget our rights pretty easy these days. Along with the right to bear arms, and the right to free speech is the right to petition the government, fair trial, and all the other rights that we are guaranteed. My point is this. Division in your stance will do you no good. And if you are so busy defending the front door, who is watching the backdoor when a dogged force uses the protical of the law and comes to take away your right to speech, assemble, and petition? Just don’t forget, freedom exists in many forms, you have to defend them all, not just one. Pray for America, she needs our help.
I think that sums it up quite well.
I agree, One Guy, about defending other rights as well. I do sometimes talk about that :)
I sort of agree with One Guy. The “sort of ” comes in where it isn’t our call. We already defend their rights. It isn’t our call as to whether they will stand up. We already are.l
Staightarrow, yes some of us defend our rights. But if we defend our rights with words and not action then it is a mute point. I agree that Mr. Zumbo has done a stupid thing. Hell, anyone can see that. But the people have spoken. And he has changed his stance. For political, personal, financial reason he has changed it. Who really cares about it now. Because if we still live in America, he still only represents one vote. It will take every voting age american to save our collective butts in this endevor. You see the issue here is that this guy has focused a lot of attention on the issue of gun ownership. Despite his comments, they are trying to pass legistation as we speak to ban guns. We all know this. This is why everyone is so damn pissed off. But it is the united voice that will win. And not everyone is voting on this issue. Not everyone is standing up and they are definately not standing together. I don’t care if you are a “fudd” or a “black gunner” in this argument. I really don’t. I own both. I like hunting and shooting. I hunt animals and eat them. I have shreaded targets with a fine SKS pumping out a thrity round clip. Blew the tree stump to hell! Trust me, I support all of you! But for the part on defending our rights not being our call. Dude that just isn’t right. You do have a say. That is why we live in this country. You and everyone is this has the right to protest any desicion made in the government. Lets take another controversy in the recent history of the US. Roe VS Wade. Made abortion legal. A law was passed. The people got it repealed. How about a little father back. Prohibition. Like your Bud in your fridge? Thank the guys who said, hey, this isn’t working, let’s change the law. This is my point. Anyone can chage the law of the US. ANYONE! If the gun opposition stays unified and follows the mandate of law they will win. Just because we may not want to play political, does not mean we don’t have too. This is a battle of law gentleman. It is in the courts and in congress where this battle will be fought. Are you writting your senators, representatives, the president? You can you know. Can you assemble as a whole and march on Washington? Yes, you can. So don’t ever tell me there is nothing you can do. If that is your attitude then we have allready lost. Give me your gun. I’ll go melt it down for you.
Referring to “One Guy Said”; he posted so succinctly that he sounds political! However, I agree with him to a point.
Defend all our rights, not just the convient ones! Don’t give an inch. What does it matter what type of shooter you are? Hunter or Target? The basic right to own arms is the important matter. It’s the right to own them, NOT the PURPOSE and we can’t afford to alienate our friends even if they mis-behave.
And as to Row vs Wade…don’t get me started…
Not to be a Miss Grundy, but the phrase is “moot point”, it means the argument is just for practice, there is no real outcome that means anything. That is why law students argue in “moot court”, they can argue all they want but it changes nothing.
Sorry to pick on a mere matter of form, but your point is too valid to have someone dismiss it by pointing out errors of grammar or spelling.
Hey, I can take my licks. Never claimed to be an English teacher, just and American. And I am not a politician. Hell, I’m 29 and a labor worker. I hump heavy crap from point a to point b most days. I just have an opinion like everyone else. And I like my country. I like my rights. I want to keep them. And yeah Windy, my grammer and spelling both suck. Thanks for the clarification. And no, I never did get that damn gold star in class either. Personally, I think my teacher had a bias. But hey, as long as the center of my argument is heard then I am happy. United we stand. Animal lover, staightarrow, everyone, we have got to stay smart. You must be more intelligent, more focused, and prepared for the battle in the political arena than your opposition. That is just a matter of survival.
One thing that I should mention about your comments about Zumbo only having one vote:
In a true democracy you’d have a point, but we’re a Republic, with elected representatives, who can be influenced through lobbying, interests, etc. Zumbo also has huge sway with hundreds of thousands of other voters. This is why his statements were so damaging. His single vote doesn’t really matter, it’s the influence those statements can have on the political process that are the problem.
Living in the California Republic I have found that my elected representatives are protected by political boundaries. The districts are gerrymandered to preserve them from actual citizen-response requirements. They have “Democratized” the Republic.
When I write them to express my disagreement with a policy or position they respond with a thank-you note for supporting them – it’s frustrating but quite clear that I have no voice. My “representatives” have no fear of a hunter or shooter backlash because it has no effect on them – they are insulated. This area is so deep-blue that even the NRA Member’s Council which used to throw fund-raising banquets that I used to attend as a Sponsor, had none this year and dissolved. There are no visible lobbying efforts or influence pedaling on the positive side for gun-rights.
Hunters meanwhile are rewarded by not having to associate with Black Rifles because they are banned. Some of the guys in my club hunt and also shoot black rifles they acquired (and registered) before the ban took effect – I’m too late and there is no sunset provision on the ban. I don’t and can’t have one – I have a bunch of obsolete antiques, an M1 Garand, an M1 Carbine, and an M1898 Krag. The guys in my club who do hunt are all of a similar age and income-strata, and while I’ve never been invited to hunt I’m also not interested in spending that amount of close-up time with them.
From my understanding of the latest AWB proposal, the Garand and Carbine are slated to be banned as well because of their “military-design” or some words to that effect.
Join or Die!
Don’t let them push you aside. That is exactly what they want. Listen. If you can assemble an organization and stand out side this guys office and protest his lack of support for the constitution and get the media involved. He might take the time out of his day to listen to you. Remeber these guys are elected. The may feel safe. But that is only until there term is up. They have to run again. And the threat of a massively pissed off gun lobby woke up the financial industy pretty well. Don’t let them make you feel like you are just a citizen. You have no say. It sickens me that he ignored you. Now they are putting it on you to take the next step. You asked nicely. Now turn up the heat. And yeah, Cali can be a hard battle ground. But remeber. These guys have finacial supports too. Think what would happen if all if this guys supporters got the full brunt that this community is capable of unleashing when they have a name and a unifed goal. That is the spark I want to ignite in people with my comments. You can hate me, disagree with me. That is OK, but please, please, please, never let your government make you feel like you cannot be heard. Maybe this guys name could be submitted to a forum. Maybe he could recieve a few more calls to his office. Like thousands. Few more letter. In the thousands. That kind of message becomes hard to just blow off. I wish you the best because it will tough. And to everyone and this is my last comment. Yes Zumbo stuck is foot if all of our butts. But we cannot change that. It is how we handle ourselves in the fallout that they are watching. That is the weapon they will use. The damage is done. Zumbo’s comments, and the reaction if the community will be used to judge gun owners as a whole. That is fact. I just hope we can pull something good out of this. And beating a dead horse is not going to help. Mr. Zumbo seems to be working with Ted Nugent to try and minimise his statements and so should we. This has brought the gun community to one table to talk. That is awsome. I have really enjoyed discussing everything with this forum. You all are starting make very intelligent arguments with me and that is what I wanted to see. So if I pissed you off and you researched and you got political on my ass, then I think I have no more to say here. This chain of positive thought on how to fix the problem is the next arena. I am looking forward to the post and thread that needs to come. “How do we move forward from 2/18” I know there is way smarter people than me that could get this forum rolling. Do to a tradgedy in my personal life I must lave my soapbox and go face death and sarrow my friends. I wish you all the best and I will be fighting on the ground with you. Just don’t have time to continue our e-debate.
One Guy, I think you mistook my comment. I didn’t mean we could do nothing. I was pointing out that we already are fighting for our rights, but we are fighting for theirs too. We are already doing this. So, it is not our call whether or not we all stick together. It is up to the hunter and the trap shooter and all those guys who don’t think their rights are at risk. You know, those guys willing to sell us down the river.
We are already fighting for them, and ourselves. They are begging to be eaten by the hungry tiger of tyranny last. So it is very much not our call. It is their call as to whether they will join all holders of rights under the second amendment in trying to reach a peaceful restoration of our rights. To date, most have not.
I do not understand this, because I have been hunting since I was 9, until I could no longer use the meat, then I quit hunting. No sane man kills for the sake of killing. But even when I was an avid hunter, who might walk 20 or more miles a day hunting, I understood that my hunting was a by-product of a much more important right and not the reason for that right.
When hunters, trap shooters, cowboy shooters, etc. realize what I knew at 9, they will join us in protecting the actual right and not the by- products of it. But it really isn’t our call, they must join us, we can’t force them, we can only try to convince them. Until such time as peaceful no longer works then we must consider them on the other side if they didn’t help us avoid such a tragedy in the best hope of mankind in history, The United States of America.
I sincerely appreciate what you’re saying One Guy, but the Reps I’m talking about happen to be Feinstein, Boxer, and Pelosi – those are my reps… At the local level my former mayor is a woman from Detroit who is now in the Legislature advancing a bill to outlaw spanking children. She moved out here and moved-in with the Liberal Machine Politics of this area, and helped apply a lot of technical/bureaucratic pressure to get the one gun-shop in town closed while mayor.
A post from oblivian. I like you guys, can’t seem to stay away!
The only guaranteed way to fail is to do nothing.
Dirt, take this post and send it to your buddies. The lady lobbied harder. She won one fight. Battle’s not over, not by a long shot. She is a public servent. Despite there big feakin’ titles they are given, still servents. There is always away, but you can’t lay down for a second. Remember, petition. Right in the first ammendment. Start a petition to bring this woman to a public hearing so the public has the right to interview her. If she backs down or dodges a petitioned public request to have a public forum to discuse and issue send it to your opinion page in your paper, one for us. Then go to the next move. Dogged determination my friend, it is what we got.
The big problem is we are dealing with two seperate levels of government here. Federal and State. You notice that the laws all seem to originate at the state level. Then are presented as working models in congress. You have to win in your back yard and win nationally. And state law is the most important. Because it is allready proven the state can have a different stance if it wants despite federal mandate. The feds may try to tax or cut funding, which sucks, but many states have made different hunting regs, auto regs, etc. All arguments that are worth it take an insane amount of effort on the part of an individual wishing to maintain there rights. But when combined with the efforts of there friends an effective lobby begins to form.
Our fore fathers got shot and killed for there belief system. God willing it never comes to that again. That is why we decided to start this who republic. Any yes it is a republic I agree. The popular vote is hung up by the fact we have to elect mediators to represent our causes. And of course those we choose to trust can stab us in the back. I think that is why everyone is pissed(or that seems to be a common thread)
But the system is not ready for instint action. This whole event illistrates this pretty clear. A lot of people acted, then thought. But it the power of cumminication and fore thought that is the tool of the common man and the one we must use to wage a proper movement. That is why the desire to regulate the internet is so big. Same problem. Access to technology, how much can we have. And that is our fight. To keep every stinking right we have and fight to the bitter end. Hence, the second ammendment. And on down the list. We have a right to assemble. And this technology allows us to assemble like never seen before. Now, what will we do with it?
And straightarrow my friend, I like what you said. But remeber, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. I also to hope we can keep our guns, and hopefully the right to still use them. I would hate to keep the right to have one but it can only sit in my house for defensive purposes. Seems like a big waste of a perfectly good machine. But you are right. You have to have one to use it first.
You guys kicks ass! Keep up the good fight. Unfortunately this medical deal in my life is pulling harder at my strings. I want to keep up our talk guys, but I am currently engaged on a full front assult from the medical establishemnt. It is a battle I must fight or someone I love could die here men. Please feel free to talk about my statements but I am about to jerk the old plug on my internet because of time and expense. I will look you up from the coffee shops or my pulbic library(the best damn entertainment in town by the way) and try and post here and there when I have more time. Hopefully I can respond to your statements.
“Insert profound statement by really famous dead person here”-(this is a joke, try to laugh a little)
The grammer and misspellings in this post do not reflect the fine people talking to me or the school teachers that smaked me in the head with a ruler. – once again, joke. Windy, that is for you. I should just send my stuff to you and have you proof read. Hey, you might have a job with Zumbo, haha. OK bye for now guys. ***ZAP*** that is my cord being pulled outta the wall. ;)
Yup, to all the Zumboites….
It was the Internet’s fault, the blogger’s fault and the hardcore unrelenting supporters that hold to the founding Father’s intent that the 2nd Amendment wasn’t about “Sporting Weapons’ but the current ‘arms of the day’ to defend U.S. citizen’s from enemies aboard and quislings from within.
That brought the ‘doom’ to zumbo the piriah.
Bigot’s of the 2ndAmendment civil rights never can see past their elitist nose at what civil rights are at stake, so long as they can hunt. Slavery was fashionable one time as well, and it’s practitioners didn’t get the civil rights violations they perpertrated & defended doing so as well. And without a truliy embraced & practiced ‘Right to bear arms’ we will all be slaves to some sort of tyranny in the future. History teaches to this fact repeatadly.
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