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My Impression

Reading Kevin’s open letter to Robyn Ringler, the impression I’m left with is the gun-control movement, because it has always had a friendly media willing to print anything without question or criticism, has never had to seriously defend its views in an open forum, and is discovering they aren’t prepared for it.

52 Responses to “My Impression”

  1. Jadegold says:

    Your impression is without basis in fact.

    If anything, the NRA and associated groups have largely received a pass from the media. Case in point, imagine if the DNC or RNC had a board member calling for the graphic murders of certain presidential candidates. Or imagine a DNC or RNC board member meeting with a white supremacist group.

    The media does a poor job of covering the issue–but that works to your advantage.

  2. bullbore says:

    The media certainly does a poor job of covering the issue but in fact it is the opposite of what jadegold claims. The media are like Pavlov’s dogs to the gun banners. when they come up with new “statistics” or a new catch phrase with no meaning (see, assault weapon) the media publishes without review or analysis. Read through the MSM and you will see countless examples of number spinning and meaningless phrase coined by the gun ban groups with very little space allowed for the counterpoint.

  3. Jadegold says:

    Another case in point: John Lott.

    Lott continues to get his op/eds published by major media outlets. Why?

  4. Sebastian says:

    Certainly correct Bullbore, and also that the media DID cover Nugents stage antics; even Fox News had that up. Not to mention USA Today. Detroit Free Press, The Chicago Sun Times, and Rolling Stone.

    But yeah, I suppose other than it being spread all over several major news outlets, the media totally ignored it.

  5. thirdpower says:

    Media Bias? You mean like how anti’s were quoted on average of 4-1 by the media during the Jackson protests? How much coverage was there on the IGOLD day which attracted 1,500 people just in Illinois? More that all the national anti protests combined.

    Should we bring up the CNN report on “Assault weapons” that went unquestioned until the NRA got involved? How widespread were the reports on that blatant lie?

    How about New Orleans? We heard about all the people shooting the police (false) but almost nothing about the confiscations and contempt charges.

    Brian A. Patrick, Ph.D found that between 90 and 98, 87% of media coverage of the NRA was negative.

  6. Jadegold says:

    Sebastian: It’s clear you missed the point WRT Nugent. None of the stories mentioned Nugent’s ties to the NRA.

    In effect, you have an NRA Board member talking about murdering presidential candidates–but no mention is made of the NRA.

    If, for example, an official at the DNC made a similar threat–do you seriously believe there wouldn’t be some followup with the DNC asking if the official would be sanctioned or if those views represented the DNC?

  7. thirdpower says:

    And how many of the good sheriff’s media reports mentioned his ties to the BC?

  8. Sebastian says:

    I wouldn’t actually blame the press for not touting someone’s organizational associations when they get in trouble. It’s hard to do it and not appear biased. Ideally, that kind of stuff ought to be left out of a story about someone getting in hot water.

  9. Jadegold says:

    My understanding of the Jenne case (and it is limited) is that Jenne was found guilty of tax evasion and mail fraud. I also know Jenne’s connection to the Brady Campaign is pretty slim. He apparently agreed with the Brady Campaign (as did a number of FL law enforcement officials) that FL should not pass a law allowing loaded firearms into bars.

    Not exactly a board member, was he?

    Hey, serial murderer Ted Bundy was a GOP campaign worker–does this mean we get to smear the GOP as mass murderers?

  10. Rob K says:

    The media points out the role for which a person is most famous. Ted Nugent is most famous for being a rock star, shored up by being a hunter and shooter. He’s not very well known for being on the NRA board.

  11. Jadegold says:

    Sebastian: The advertised position of the NRA is that they support safe and responsible gun ownership by law-abiding citizens. It’s not true, of course, but that’s the facade they promote.

    Again, Nugent isn’t just a member or supporter of NRA policies–he’s a board member. He’s part of NRA leadership.

    How is it biased to mention a leader in a group supposedly dedicated to safe and responsible gun ownership by law-abiding citizens is publicly calling for the murder of presidential candidates?

  12. Linoge says:

    The mainstream media has almost always been invariably on the side of the hoplophobes… I mean, they never, ever miss a chance to drop such idiotic (and generally semantically null) phrases as “assault rifle”, “high capacity magazine”, “rapid-fire”, and all the rest, and more often than not go into the realm of stupid error/outright lie to call things “automatic” or other untruths.

    The only thing “assaulting” about the firearms they so misname is the aesthetic of their design. And how, exactly, do you define “high” capacity? 10? 20? 200? And sure, firearms these days are rapid-fire, I suppose… if you compare them to the muzzle-loading muskets of old. But 95% of civilian-owned firearms only go bang once with each pull of the trigger (and those 5% are owned by people who have had to undergo such massive background checks, it is safe to say they are ok individuals). And I suppose they are automatic too, if you count semi-automatic firearms as “automatically” reloading themselves… at least until their magazines run out. Revolvers are out in the cold, though.

    Every chance they get, the media paints firearms and firearm owners in a remarkably negative light. To claim that is not at the prompting of the “gun control” (read “gun thief”) lobby is sheer idiocy.

    Robyn is only following the trend of all those hoplophobes before her… resort to purely emotional arguments with just the tiniest bit of factual information embedded in them to make them seem “plausible”, and then run away screaming when people with half a clue systematically smack down each and every one of them. She did follow the intermediate path of deleting opposing comments (After all, if no one disasgrees with you, you must be right. Right?), but the end result is the same as most other gun-thieving weblogs. I am sorry that her views are so weak that they cannot withstand mine being expressed. Unfortunately for her, the comments section of her weblog is not the only place I can do so, and the same stands for a lot of other people who are better able to debate this topic than I am.

  13. thirdpower says:

    It was much more than “just in bars”. It was the entire Castle Doctrine law, Assault Weapons, etc.

  14. Sebastian says:

    One thing is that the NRA doesn’t have control over who their leadership is, because they are elected. Nugent’s celebrity as a rock musician earned him enough votes to win a board seat.

    Personally, I don’t think he’s always, or even often, a great spokesperson for the cause, because he’s prone to saying nutty things like he did.

    I wouldn’t have been shocked if the press mentioned someone’s association with a group when they get in trouble, but that the media doesn’t report that in many cases, on both sides, I wouldn’t be prepared to call slacking off on the job.

  15. Yosemite Sam says:

    “The advertised position of the NRA is that they support safe and responsible gun ownership by law-abiding citizens. It’s not true, of course, but that’s the facade they promote.”

    So you have a cite where the NRA supported unsafe and not responsible gun ownership by non law-abiding citizens. You won’t because the NRA has never advocated that position.

    As far as Nugent is concerned, his comment was over the top hyperbole. If he was actually advocating murder, he would be in jail.

  16. Yosemite Sam says:

    “I wouldn’t have been shocked if the press mentioned someone’s association with a group when they get in trouble…”

    I suspect the media doesn’t even have a clue he is a board member. It’s not like they are up on the particulars of the NRA. They didn’t mention Larry Craig was a board member as well. That would require research on their part, not something they like to do.

    Maybe Jade ought to fire off a note the the Brady’s about Nugent and Craig’s board memberships and the Brady’s can do a press release and then the information will be printed.

  17. Jadegold says:

    One thing is that the NRA doesn’t have control over who their leadership is, because they are elected.

    Huh? Because they’re elected they’re not in the leadership of the NRA?

    I must reiterate the media is completely slacking off in this instance. Further, it has overlooked similar inflammatory statements by others in the NRA leadership.

    And it’s not just the NRA; Larry Pratt still appears in media outlets. Why? Why are not his ties to racist and anti-semitic organizations noted?

  18. Jadegold says:

    They didn’t mention Larry Craig was a board member as well.

    Craig’s hypocrisy really had nothing to do with his association with the NRA.

  19. Yosemite Sam says:

    “Further, it has overlooked similar inflammatory statements by others in the NRA leadership.”

    Cite.

    Even so, when there is a segment of society dedicated to depriving people of their civil and Constitutional rights, is it any wonder that people talk strongly and even perhaps in a inflammatory manner. We won’t be quiet anymore.

  20. thirdpower says:

    Out of the 4 police chiefs who opposed the Florida law as listed by the BC, 2 are either under investigation or have pled guilty to corruption charges.

  21. Yosemite Sam says:

    “Craig’s hypocrisy really had nothing to do with his association with the NRA.”

    and it had nothing to do with his Senate seat, either.

  22. Yosemite Sam says:

    As I said, the media has no clue that Nugent is an NRA board member. Send them a presser, Jade

  23. Jadegold says:

    and it had nothing to do with his Senate seat, either.

    Debatable. Craig made a living promoting himself as a “family values” politico. He was instrumental in passing legislation which denied basic rights to gays.

    Personally, I could care less about Craig’s personal life. But I do find the hypocrisy pretty brazen.

  24. thirdpower says:

    Mayor Frank Melton convicted on illegally carrying a firearm. No media mention of MAIG membership.

  25. Jadegold says:

    Cite.

    There are Jeff Cooper’s many racist statements, Charlton Heston’s bigoted statements, the NRA’s Freedom in Peril comic book, etc.

    Even so, when there is a segment of society dedicated to depriving people of their civil and Constitutional rights, is it any wonder that people talk strongly and even perhaps in a inflammatory manner. We won’t be quiet anymore.

    Another example of reasoned discourse™–subscribe to my views or we’ll attack you.

  26. Yosemite Sam says:

    Cite them then. Links will be fine. If you don’t have them then what you say is so much BS.

    So firearms advocates reacting against a long term hate crime committed against them is equivalent to them saying that others have to subscribe to their views. The logic doesn’t follow.

  27. Yosemite Sam says:

    Jade Gold must work for the VPC or some other group. I’ve never seen an anti who even knew Jeff Cooper existed.

  28. Sebastian says:

    To the whole NRA is a racist organization meme:

    Last year attending the convention in St. Louis, a guy got up and suggested that the NRA be preventing from producing its materials in any language other than English, because the second amendment was only really for Americans who speak English.

    Pretty clearly your typical ignorant xenophobic jack off.

    It didn’t appear to me that the membership took the guy seriously, and the leadership sure as hell didn’t. His motion didn’t make it very far.

  29. thirdpower says:

    The BC created a flash video that used racist stereotypes to promote urban anti-gun legislation.

  30. Guav says:

    Jadegold, I agree with you that if a member of the DNC or RNC made remarks like that it would be a different story. But that’s also because the NRA is not a political party, I don’t think it’s a very accurate analogy.

    It’s more like “If Jon Stewart called for the graphic murders of certain presidential candidates, would the media mention that he was a leader of MoveOn.org?” Pretending for the moment that he was a leader of MoveOn.org, they most likely would not mention it, because it’s not what he is primarily known for—he’s known as a comedian, actor and host of the Daily Show.

    There are always going to be things we think the media should highlight more than they do, but singular examples are not proof of underlying trends, and the idea that the media has a pro-gun bias is completely laughable.

    That being said, as far as I’m concerned it’s an embarassment to the NRA to have Ted Nugent on their board given the kind of shit he says.

  31. Kevin Baker says:

    “That being said, as far as I’m concerned it’s an embarassment to the NRA to have Ted Nugent on their board given the kind of shit he says.”

    Yup.

    I said the same thing.

  32. Jadegold says:

    But that’s also because the NRA is not a political party, I don’t think it’s a very accurate analogy.

    Actually, it is. They have a political agenda.

    Look, it’s pretty simple: let’s say I’m a leader with MADD. I get stopped on a DUI. Wouldn’t the media be remiss in reporting on my association with MADD?

    The media has done such a poor job on this issue–but it clearly benefits your side.

  33. thirdpower says:

    Only if you ignore all the examples I’ve already given. You could also throw in Annette Steven’s of the MMM.

  34. Sebastian says:

    In that case, it would highlight on the individual’s hypocrisy, much like when gun control advocates get busted on weapons charges. Might mean the group needs to be more careful about its leadership. That NRA members often make poor decisions in that regard is not something we won’t admit, but all organizations, to some degree, have that problem.

    People suck, what can you do?

  35. Jadegold says:

    Third: Your examples aren’t very good. The fact is Annette Stevens association with Million Moms March was publicized in the media. A simple Google could have told you as much.

    Maybe you’re missing the point…again.

  36. thirdpower says:

    Really? What “media” would that be? The majority of hits on “annette stevens arrested” and “annette stevens million mom march” are from “gun lobby” web sites. Why don’t you provide a few links? Or howabout a few for MAIG member Frank Melton?

  37. anon says:

    To the whole NRA is a racist organization meme:

    Also recall the assistance rendered by the NRA prior to the Brazil gun ban referendum.

  38. anon says:

    “Actually, it is. They have a political agenda.”

    So VPC is a political party?
    The Brady Bunch?

    Have they ever offered a candidate for office?

  39. Jadegold says:

    Anon: Absolutely; most any lobbying group is political. As are a number of the so-called “think tanks.”

    The key word is “political.” Political agenda.

    WRT Brazil, you really have some misconceptions about the country if you think it exonerates the NRA from charges of racism. You really really should learn more about the makeup of their society.

  40. thirdpower says:

    Jade proclaimed: “Actually, it is. They have a political agenda.”

    So what ballots have had “John Doe” NRA on it? I’ve seen R, D, Green, Lib, Constitution, even the CPUSA on a few tickets.

  41. thirdpower says:

    So then the NAACP, AARP, VPC, etc. are all “political parties”?

  42. Linoge says:

    Considering the inordinate misconceptions Jadegold has about the term “arms”, is it any wonder that he has equally large amounts of confusion concerning the phrase “political party”?

    If nothing else, this boy (?) is perfectly consistent in his idiocy.

    (Oh, and for those confused, “political party” != (“political activists”, “political lobyists”, “political agenda”). Political parties can have all of those things, but just being or belonging to one of those things does not immediately imply participation in a political party. Or for more details (and may God strike me dead for linking to Wikipedia), you can look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States .)

  43. Guav says:

    Political in nature, yes. Political party on par with Democrats or Republicans, no. Once again, it’s a bad analogy.

    let’s say I’m a leader with MADD. I get stopped on a DUI. Wouldn’t the media be remiss in reporting on my association with MADD?

    Remiss? No, not really. Pointing that out is only good for the “Har har, what a hypocrite factor,” it’s not really relevant to the arrest, and it doesn’t matter at the end of the day. That Larry Craig has sponsored anti-gay legislation isn’t the story, the story is that he got busted trying to blow some guy in a public restroom. Pointing out that he’s a hypocrite isn’t useful to the story except that it allows us to feel a little superior.

    Once again, this single example is hardly evidence of a general trend of pro-gun bias.

    Sure, I guess that the media didn’t point out Nugent’s leadership role in the NRA somehow “benefits my side,” but the media’s continual conflation of sporting rifles with machine guns has been benefitting your side, oh, for like over a decade now.

  44. straightarrow says:

    I see the butt-plug was the first to respond.

    I sort of wish he would have a DeBose experience. I bet he would convert just as quickly if not more so.

    Let me make it clear, I wouldn’t want him to suffer any more harm than did DeBose. An extreme smack to the ego for being so totally fucking wrong and finally having to admit it.

    As sorry an excuse for a human he is, I wouldn’t wish him real harm.

    Perhaps a conversation with DeBose would be enlightening, but somehow, I feel enlightenment is not his ambition.

  45. Jadegold says:

    Remiss? No, not really. Pointing that out is only good for the “Har har, what a hypocrite factor,” it’s not really relevant to the arrest, and it doesn’t matter at the end of the day.

    Wrong on several levels.

    First, if you’re a leader in a given organization, you represent that organization. If your behavior is antithetical to the stated aims of that organization–it’s a poor reflection on that group. And most reputable organizations would take their own actions to sanction or discipline you.

    Second, hypocrisy matters. If you’re preaching a particular agenda but you aren’t walking that same agenda–it undermines both your credibility and the credibility of the agenda.

  46. thirdpower says:

    So the media should have been shouting to the heavens about Mayor Melton and Ms. Stevens?

    Still waiting for those links you said were everywhere.

  47. Mark says:

    Jadegolds’ facts are like Ringlers’ discourse – vaporware.
    C’mon, we quote statistics, provide cites, and use references such as the FBI’s uniform crime report. He makes an assertion, and then runs like hell from the rebuttals. Getting this character to acknowledge a point is exactly like the old ‘nailing jello to the wall’ routine.
    His MO is “Change the subject, make something up, and when all else fails, toss insults.”
    Granted, he is a poster child for the saying “Free speech is great – it lets you know who the morons are”, but why does anyone bother responding?

  48. BobG says:

    Like trying to argue with a yapping chihuahua; it just barks louder, and still doesn’t have any bite to go with it. All noise, no facts.

  49. anon says:

    For anyone here amused to the point of puzzlement w.r.t. Jadegold’s completely irrational nature would do well to head over to the “Dr. Sanity” bog. It’s written by a psychiatrist who does a nice job of explaining some of the delusions, denial, and projection that characterize the psychosis we see at work here and elsewhere.

  50. anon says:

    That’s the “Dr. Sanity” blog, obviously. Darn laptop chicklet keyboards!

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  1. SayUncle » Quote of the day - [...] Sebastian: Reading Kevins open letter to Robyn Ringler, the impression Im left with is the gun-control movement, because it…
  2. Pro-Gun Progressive » Jadegold Really Is Crazy - [...] There’s no nice way to put it, so I won’t bother trying. [...]
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