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The LTC Process in Philly

Despite the state making an effort to standardize the LTC application process, Philly is still wants to do things their own way.

The application itself is 4 (four) pages if you print some of them front/back. Doesnt that go against what is outline in:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses (c) Form of application and content.–The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.

Or am I just dense?

You’re not dense, no. But the law doesn’t honestly mean anything to these people, and it’s always just been cheaper to go get yourself a Florida license that to try to challenge the system. Kathy Kane might have just changed that equation, however. In every jurisdiction except for “cities of the first class,” which Philadelphia (and only Philadelphia) is under PA law, the issuing authority is the sheriff. For Philadelphia it is the Chief of Police. One bill I’ve seen would allow applications to be made to neighboring jurisdictions. This would be a useful first step, on the way to fixing this issue by not requiring permits, and may be useful for people who live in sprawling counties where the neighboring sheriff may actually be closer.

22 Responses to “The LTC Process in Philly”

  1. borekfk says:

    And people wonder why Philadelphia has become such a hole.

  2. jkp says:

    Is there anyone who’s gone through this process who can comment on how much of a PITA Philly makes it for you? JUst curious…..

  3. Ian Argent says:

    If the PA AG closes off the FL (and other state) permit reciprocity, won’t that change the cost/benefit equation?

  4. Ben C says:

    Our AG, Kane, hasnt close off resiprocity for out of state resident permits, what she did was not recognize the non-resident permits. So, that closed the other legal way for Phila folks to get a LTCF from states like FL, AZ, VA, etc. without dealing with the Phila Gun Unit.

  5. Saratoga says:

    To which bill are you referring? I live in Philly and do not yet have an LTCF so I’m quite curious.

  6. Zermoid says:

    Rent an apartment in a different county for a month, mabey 2, get your DL changed to that address, then get your permit from the sheriff. Clearfield County is on the spot, walk in with a DL and assuming a clean record walk out with a LCCF, not sure about others.
    Then you can “move” back to philly for 5 years.

  7. JustSomeGuy says:

    Ah Filthy. Where you go into the lobby at 9th and Spring Garden, grab your clipboard, wait an hour to get called to the second floor and wait another 45 minutes to pick up the permit you already applied for (after the 45 business day wait of course). Yes always 45 days. Do not try to apply more than 45 business days in advance either, because they simply will not allow it. Show up with out two valid forms of ID plus two pieces of proof of residency (that must be good enough for the officer who can decide online printouts are simply not acceptable and send you away (which they did to my wife), try to argue they just ignore you). Oh and they ask if you have any other permits from other states and ask to copy them (I’ve been told they stopped doing this, or they did not to my wife earlier this year versus a year ago when they did it to me), then give you a lecture about having one (I usually have NH and/or FL in addition).

    Yea. One of my goals in life is never to have to get another permit in the city. On the positive side, if you already have a PA permit, you can still get NH for 100 bucks with nearly zero hassle to cover you while Philly drags their feet for the max allowable time, and since you have to have a PA permit to get the NH one, hopefully the state AG leaves that agreement alone.

  8. asdf says:

    I’ve often wondered what it would take to establish residence in another county in order to avoid being turned down on “character and reputation” grounds by the PhillyPD for minor infractions that wouldn’t disqualify you anywhere else in the state.

    The solution is to take issuing authority away from counties/cities and have a single, central issuing authority for the entire state. “character and reputation” are nothing more than code words for “black”, if these idiotic PROGBOTS are to believe the very same disparate impact arguments they employ in every other case where blacks are disproportionally affected.

    My personal experience with the PPD gun permits division was relatively positive, but I saw many people get turned down during the interview for having past restraining orders – very common in urban black communities and doesn’t necessarily indicate that a person is likely to be dangerous. Restraining orders are frequently used by women for economic leverage in domestic disputes among poor communities.

  9. Sevesteen says:

    The adjacent jurisdiction rule helps a lot–my home county (in Ohio) is near the maximum difficulty the law allows, requiring appointments (to handle the massive 300 licenses and renewals per year…) and then taking within a few days of the maximum time allowed by law. Adjacent counties generally take applications any time during business hours and take about 2 weeks to process, one of them usually does renewals while you wait, in about 15 minutes.

  10. Whetherman says:

    Even if some circumstances forced me to live in Philadelphia, I can think of lots of other reasons besides LTCFA to establish my legal address of residence at a friend’s house (or business) outside the city, in one of the contiguous counties. Write him or her a couple rent checks and have them hand you back the cash under the table, in case you need some proof in addition to a DL address.

    A friend of mine used to rent rooms to students and other semi-transients in a big, old Victorian house, and the mail was just dropped on the table inside the door in the foyer. I used to use it for a mail drop, because the names of people living there were turning over constantly. My friend would pick up my mail for me.

  11. BenC says:

    How do the statements to “move” or “establish residence elsewhere” attempt to solve the issue of unequal requirements for counties within PA for in regards to LTCF?

    Folks in Philadelphia must now get a LTCF issued by PA if you claim residence here. Our crack AG changed the resiprocity laws to no longer include other states non-resident permits.

  12. Ben C says:

    A SAD reply from Gov Corbett’s office

    “Good Morning, Mr. C:

    Thank you for your correspondence to the Governor’s Office. Regrettably, our office cannot intervene in these matters on your behalf since they fall under the jurisdiction of your county government and not the Governor. Your county sheriff’s office is responsible to administer concealed carry permits in your community, as these are not issues handled at the state level. Therefore, we suggest you contact your county sheriff’s office directly with your concerns to address these issues appropriately.

    We regret that we cannot be of more assistance to you with these issues, but they fall outside of the Governor’s legal jurisdiction. Should you need further assistance with a state-related matter in the future, please feel free to contact our office again.

    Thank you, and best wishes.

    TOM CORBETT
    Governor”

  13. Ben C says:

    My reply…..I’m not holding my breath that I get an answer

    “Gov Corbett,

    I appreciate your response, but I respectfully disagree on this being a state issue. It is a state issue when local governments are NOT following state laws.

    The Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act(PA-UFA), a state law, governs the licensing process, not any local laws or jurisdictions. It is the local jurisdictions responsible to follow the state laws.

    Here is Philadelphia’s LTCF applicaton: http://www.phillypolice.com/assets/docs/PPD-Form.Firearm-License-Application.pdf

    If you take the time to open the PDF, you will notice that it is 6 pages that deviates both in requirements and content from the prescribed single page. In the PA-UFA, it is quite clear about the form to be used and the information required:

    “18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses (c) Form of application and content.–The application for a license to carry a firearm shall be uniform throughout this Commonwealth and shall be on a form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police. The form may contain provisions, not exceeding one page, to assure compliance with this section. Issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police.”

    As stated in the PA-UFA, there shall be a uniform application (which Philadelphia does not follow) and it may not exceed one page (which Philadelphia does not follow). It also states that issuing authorities shall use only the application form prescribed by the Pennsylvania State Police (which, again, Philadelphia does not follow).

    There are also other things within the Philadelphia application process that disregard what is outlined at the state level.

    They require fingerprinting as part of the application process, which is NOT done or required in other issuing counties. As well as interviews and in-person submissions of the form. Frankly, it’s easier for out-of-state (non-residence) people to apply and obtain a Pennsylvania LTCF than it is to apply and receive a resident LTCF in Philadelphia. Why?

    As a contrasting example, here is York Counties: http://yorkcountypa.gov/courts-criminal-justice/court-courtrelated-offices/sherifs-office/concealed-weapons-permits.html

    I’m not asking you to change any laws, I am however, asking that you make Philadelphia comply with the laws we have in place and be “uniform throughout this Commonwealth” as stated in the PA-UFA

    I will leave you with one final note. In the Pennsylvania Constitution it states in Section 21: Right to Bear Arms, “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.”

    Thanks,
    -Ben C”

    • Sebastian says:

      There’s really nothing the Governor can do about it. Even if it was an actionable criminal matter, which it’s not, it would fall under Kathy Kane’s office, and good luck with that. State law pretty much lets Philadelphia get away with whatever they want to do from that point of view. If you want to challenge it, it would have to be through the courts. The courts have the authority to enjoin the city, but that would cost money and time.

      • Ben C says:

        I’m trying to get exposure everywhere possible. Whether they can help or enact change or not, isn’t quite the point.

        I just sent a similar email to AG Kathy Kane. Again not holding my breath on a reply.

        This topic does not appear to get any attention at any level, other than from people like me that have to deal with it.

        Do I expect to fail? Yup.
        Do I want to try and do the right thing? Yup.
        Its it easy? Nope.

        But if no one stands up, it will continue to be the same.

        • Sebastian says:

          Have you pinged your state lawmakers about the situation? Not that they will likely care either, but they ought to at least know one of their constituents does.

          • Ben C says:

            I have. They have no response. Typical.

            • Sebastian says:

              It’s one of those things they are probably going to be allowed to get away with unless the law is changed. A lawsuit might have a prayer, but probably a slim one.

              • Ben C says:

                unless the law is changed to what? They’re already violating the Uniform Firearms Act….which I think is a law? =]

                Not trying to be argumentative, but what would they change it to? Allowing you to apply at any State facility would be the only thing….or constitutional carry.

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