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A Submachine Gun Lunch

My friend Jason and I got tired of the same old same old, so we took a lunch break this afternoon and went down to the range to shoot some of the new uppers he got for his M11 submachine gun. One upper is from Calico, which uses their helical magazine to give it a 100 round capacity. That’s quite a bit of fun, let me tell you. The other upper slows the M11s famously high rate of fire, making the gun considerably more manageable firing full-auto. When you’re throwing lead downrange 100 round magazine at a time, your target backer looks pretty sad when it’s all finished.

I was also happy I got some Glock and Kel-Tec time in drawing from the holster, which is something I can’t do at my club, but which you can do at Classic Pistol. Out of holster I’m averaging about 2.1 seconds from leather to a reasonably well placed shot on target at 10 yards. That’s slower than the last time I got to do draw from holster, and way slower than the Jeff Cooper standard of 1.5 seconds and from leather to two shots. This is from concealment, but I was only 0.1 second faster with concealment removed. Shooting from pocket I’m about 3.5 seconds with the Kel-Tec.  That wouldn’t worry me too much if my pocket holster didn’t come out still on the gun a few times. Definitely time for a new one of those.

Because of my club’s rules, I don’t get to practice real world practical shooting very much, and it’s showing. I’ve said self-defense and practical shooters need to get involved with local clubs, and become advocates. There’s a whole world of shooting out there many clubs are afraid to try, and they won’t as long as people who do this kind of shooting stay away from them.

8 Responses to “A Submachine Gun Lunch”

  1. I’d suggest getting an airsoft Glock, but I’m wagering the 10 yards part is what might be killing you on time and airsoft is definitely not a long range simulator.

  2. Carl from Chicago says:

    Sebastian … don’t you have any nearby clubs that host IDPA pistol matches? I would strongly encourage you to do some of those … they are great practice for things like drawing a hot gun from a holster.

    I haven’t done draw time trials for some time, but back in Texas, I was able to draw and fire two center mass hits at 7 yards or so, in about 1.2 or 1.3 seconds. Granted … a real life draw and fire situation would almost necessarily be slower, simply because you wouldn’t be standing there ready for the buzzer to go off.

  3. Sebastian says:

    Not clubs… there one commercial indoor range nearby that hosts them. Nearest club, I think, is Wilkes Barre.

  4. I understand why many ranges discourage shooting from a holster. That’s the advantage of living where I do: my “shooting range” is outside, unregulated, and there are no rules about drawing from a holster.

  5. I agree about the M11’s unreasonable rate of fire. It is the least pleasant full auto that I have fired. I had occasion to fire a Skorpion a while back. Okay, .32 caliber isn’t a particularly impressive choice for an automatic weapon–but it is very controllable.

  6. Carl from Chicago says:

    All IDPA matches I shoot are drawn from holster. I don’t think it can be any other way. Most ranges are cold … you aren’t loaded until on the line under command of safety officer.

    One range I used to shoot IDPA-ish matches in Chicagoland (shot matches there nearly every week) … well, it was an outlier because the range was hot. Before we began, everyone went up to the line, and made hot. We stayed hot the entire evening. For several years the shooters used to walk around the gun store too (between stages, etc.) always with hot guns (and no retention holsters, I might add). Then a couple years ago the owner heard about some incident in a gun store (I don’t know where) where a customer grabbed an employee’s gun and scared a few folks, so after that he asked us to leave our guns in the range part if we wanted to walk around the store. Seemed reasonable … Chicagoland news would eat up any “mishap” that would have happened there. But for years, no incident. There were usually about 15-20 of us shooting … all hot, all the time. We were all very experienced shooters … one a street cop, one a police chief, one a federal LEO, and one military. As I said, that was an outlier, as most matches I’ve been to are cold.

  7. Diomed says:

    “I agree about the M11′s unreasonable rate of fire. It is the least pleasant full auto that I have fired.”

    That’s what the Max-11 is for (www.max-11.com). Slows the rate to about that of an Uzi with no modification to the lower. I like ’em so much I got four (one in 9mm, two in .45, one in .22).

  8. Strings says:

    Depending on the pocket holster you’re using, it might not require replacement, just a bit of retraining.

    I’ve got two for my Seecamp: a Milt Sparks and a deSantis. Both will, on occasion, come out with the gun when drawn “straight up”. What I found was that pulling the gun “up and back” will catch the holster, regardless of how tight the gun/holster fit or loose the pocket.

    Hope that helps a bit!

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