search
top

Zumbo’s Sincerity

I have something to say about the sincerity of Zumbo’s conversion that’s being questioned in both Uncle’s comments and mine: quite frankly, I don’t really give a shit whether he’s sincere or not.  As long as he’s saying and doing the right things, it matters not to me whether he really believes it, or is just trying to salvage his career.

There’s a reason why I think it doesn’t matter, and it has to do with the sheer number of hunters that Jim is capable of reaching.  We’re not going to do ourselves any favors by being stubborn and obstinate about this.  We need hunters on our side, and if we’re going to insist on eating our own instead of fighting the anti-gun folks, we’re going to lose.

If Jim wants to spread the word to hunters, either to save his career, or because he’s seen the light on the issue, it’s not of much importance to me.   The result is the same.

10 Responses to “Zumbo’s Sincerity”

  1. SayUncle says:

    And the added benefit of the PR from the collective we forgiving him.

  2. Jym says:

    I read this blog because I’m personal friends with Sebastian, not because of any interest in shooting (I’m generally very supportive of gun rights, but have absolutely no interest in owning any myself), so from an outsider’s perspective I have to say that I agree 100% that there is a PR benefit to forgiving him.

    From my vantage point, I think that the way that he has been attacked by the shooting community could be viewed as very off-putting to outsiders. I can understand why such a strong reaction initially happened, as it was giving ammo to the Brady people and the like. However, now that he has retracted his comments, the anger towards him is just coming across as spiteful, childish, and crazy. Exactly the kind of crazy that is likely to push people away from supporting your community and your rights, not towards it.

    While he undoubtedly did do some damage to your cause, at the same time he has shown he is more than willing to try his best to undo it. Whether he is sincere or not is, as Sebastian said, irrelevant. Furthermore, does anyone think he’s going to be more likely to be sincere in his apology when they’re costing him his career? He’s effectively been backed into a corner by the less forgiving members of the community, as they feel personally slighted, refuse to accept his apology as sincere, and are forcing him into a position where his apology is probably becoming less and less so anyway.

    A good example of the damage you’re doing to yourselves over this is my father. My father was a hunter and NRA member for many years and brought me on several hunting trips when I was a kid, but as he became older and grew apart from his hunting buddies he’s just gradually gotten out of it, let his NRA membership lapse, etc.. When I told him about the Zumbo thing, he was somewhat upset. He read Zumbo’s articles for many years, and was disappointed by the way that so many had just completely turned on him. My dad, who when I mentioned Sebastian and Bitter’s upcoming shooting trip with a smirk, was actually really excited. You’re not going to be luring back any old dogs like him to your cause in this manner.

    The shooting community is already facing an uphill battle in many ways. Many people are rather dismissive of gun owners as mostly being wackos. These are not exceptionally liberal people, either, just middle of the road moderate Average Joes that think driving to Texas with a car full of guns and ammo is absolutely terrifying and insane, not a fun vacation. These are the people you need to convince you’re not crazy in order to hold your ground, and incidents like the Zumbo thing are not going to help them think that. There is a time for war and a time for diplomacy, and unfortunately from what I’ve read in things Sebastian has linked to I think that some of the community does not realize when their interests would better be served by the latter.

  3. straightarrow says:

    “The result is the same.”

    Absolutely, the result is the same. The exact same as led him to believe he could throw us under the bus and suffer no consequence. Do you really think anybody is fooled by these damn publicity “conversions”. The people that agreed with him before, will just say, “It’s irrelevant what he says now. We know he doesn’t mean it. He’s just doing what he needs to do to save his career. He was right before and we know it.” Then they’ll go out with their “traditional” firearm to hunt and feel and believe they are so superior to everyone who is actually trying to ensure they can continue to do so.

    He cannot make amends for what he has done. Sorry, there it is. He cannot unring the bell. And he isn’t going to change any minds now. I don’t care if he suffers personally, I can see not good coming to me or to the cause of liberty because Jim Zumbo is paying a heavy price for his duplicity. I literally mean I don’t care. Send him all your money tomorrow out of sympathy, I don’t care. But don’t try to tell me he can undo what he has done, or that he is sincere, or that we have overreacted.

    I don’t know about you, but if I had a dog that bit me when I fed him, I would quit feeding him. He could whine all he wanted, I wouldn’t be convinced he would convince the other “biters” to be nice if I fed him again.

    That is my peaceful approach. More realistically I would kick him silly. Color me peculiar, l don’t like being bitten or stabbed in the back . Evidently I am not metrosexual enough.

  4. Jym says:

    “That is my peaceful approach. More realistically I would kick him silly. Color me peculiar, l don’t like being bitten or stabbed in the back . Evidently I am not metrosexual enough.”

    It would serve you well to remember that you are the ambassador of your beliefs, and throwing in absolutely ridiculous one liners about metrosexuality really reduce the likelihood of anyone taking you seriously or thinking that you are worth listening to and supporting.

    I hope for the sake of the gun community that people who can disagree with a bit more tact manage to catch the public’s ear, because I fear you’re doing far more damage than good.

    If you truly want to help out your cause, acting with a bit less machismo and more diplomacy would be advised. Your last paragraph largely wipes away the chance of anything you said previously being valued by a more neutral observer.

    Kind of funny how one silly throwaway comment can get people to completely ignore everything else you said. I guess you and Zumbo may have more in common than you thought!

  5. straightarrow says:

    Too bad you didn’t understand it. It’s not my job to educate you. I meant it just exactly like I wrote it. I don’t think you understood it. I am not surprised. The comment had nothing to do with machismo. But you probably don’t know what that means either.

    I don’t get my hair razor cut, I don’t get manicures, I don’t have a clothing coordinator (which is very obvious according to my wife), I don’t know what the latest fashionable drink is, I don’t wear shoes the names of which I can’t pronounce, I don’t stick my finger in the wind to find out which way the wind is blowing before I decide what I think. In other words, I am just not cool enough, nor faddish enough, nor trendy enough, nor faux enlightened enough to eschew good sense when making judgments of serious import.

    The only one of the examples above I gave as indicative of a metrosexual that I hold enmity for is “I don’t stick my finger in the wind to find out which way the wind is blowing before I decide what I think.” That one is a matter of character.

    It has been my experience that anyone overly concerned with the others is usually a little short in that department, but not always. And it has been my experience that the biggest displays of machismo come from that quarter.

    Narcissism is usually present in a metrosexual male, again not always, just usually. I find a lot of people pride themselves on being “understanding” when they don’t understand a damn thing. Non-commitment to principle and refusal to hold one’s self and others to standards has come to embody an open and tolerant mind, but again, I have found it is usually camouflage for the lack of moral fiber. Again, not always.

    I do know that you need a dictionary.

  6. Annie says:

    If you knew or even saw Jym you would not think he was metrosexual. Or Mr. Sebastian, for that matter. It’s a funny image, though.

  7. Jym says:

    According to dictionary.com:

    “Main Entry: metrosexual
    Part of Speech: n, adj
    Definition: a heterosexual male who has a strong aesthetic sense and inordinate interest in appearance and style, similar to that of homosexual males”

    There is nothing in there about being overly focused on which way the wind is blowing, other than conjecture of perhaps in the sense to keep up with fashion. You basically just extended the definition to suit your own purposes and then called ignorance when someone else interpreted your use of the word in the most basic dictionary definition rather than your own special extended version. How is what kind of clothes someone wears even remotely relevant to disagreeing with you?

    Here’s the definition of machismo for you:

    ma·chis·mo /mɑˈtʃizmoʊ, -ˈtʃɪz-, mə-/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[mah-cheez-moh, -chiz-, muh-] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun
    1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity.

    Your last comment absolutely reeks of this, with an entire paragraph dedicated to talking about how you’re not one of those metrosexual girly men that has matching clothes or, god forbid, uses a RAZOR to cut their hair! You then go on to disclaim, not that there’s anything wrong with being a metrosexual girly man, except, you say, in most cases there is. If that’s not a completely transparent disclaimer to get yourself out of any political correctness backlashes, I don’t know what is.

    Have you given any consideration whatsoever to how you come across to others? Something as simple as an innocuous comment about disappointment over someone’s entire career, spanning decades, being ruined, and you’re ready to say you don’t need a person disappointed about that supporting you? With that kind of attitude, come election time, you may find that you’re in a very small group indeed, as all of these people you alienate really do abandon you and you’re left at the mercy of anti-gun candidates, who may not have been elected had you not arrogantly cast off those not living up to your pristine vision of the truth.

    I mean, honestly, this is NOT the kind of support your community needs. There are plenty of people out there who are making the same basic point you are, that Zumbo shouldn’t be forgiven, in a much more constructive manner. You can respectfully disagree with someone without making thinly veiled ad hominem attacks against their manliness. While I may disagree with them on the Zumbo matter, I certainly know that dismissing anyone who disagrees with me as metrosexual and saying I don’t want their vote is a surefire way to end up losing all of your remaining political clout and being outvoted into oblivion.

    In the end, your prediction may come true. Hunters will be likely to throw you under the bus in order to save themselves. But perhaps you should look in the mirror to see why exactly they are likely to do so. In this analogy, it’s you who are the dog, who has bitten them, and the longer you continue growling and barking and lunging at them instead of accepting it as a mistake the more likely they are to let you starve.

  8. straightarrow says:

    “If you knew or even saw Jym you would not think he was metrosexual. Or Mr. Sebastian, for that matter. It’s a funny image, though.” Annie

    I didn’t say he was, I said I wasn’t. Mostly meaning I am not trendy. My principles and beliefs have been set for a long time and at the cost of much thought. So when some new fad comes along with its own vocabulary, I am just not cool enough to latch onto it.

    Lately it has been real cool to never be judgmental. Now just how much horseshit is that? Of course we should be judgmental. How is society supposed to operate if people don’t make judgments? I judge rapists and murderers in unfavorable light, the more serious the transgression the more unfavorable the light. It works just the other way for the heroes and achievers among us.

    So what I was saying is that I, me, myself was not trendy and on board with the new dynamics of appearing tolerant when the fact of the something is beyond tolerance.

  9. straightarrow says:

    “…………….inordinate interest in appearance and style” Did you miss that part. Style has more to do than just with clothes and you know. I am starting to be curious about why you went hysterical over it.

    I am flattered that you think I am macho. But I am just an ordinary, usually gentle guy, all the time if permitted. The only way I am not gentle is if force or violence is used or threatened on me or mine. With the exception of spiders, I even throw the errant bug out of the house, rather than kill it, if I can. Hell bees even like me and will ride my hand to the door.

    “1. a strong or exaggerated sense of manliness; an assumptive attitude that virility, courage, strength, and entitlement to dominate are attributes or concomitants of masculinity”- posted by Jym.

    I know some metros and believe me, every one of them believes he should be in charge and dominate. I bet you know some too.

    I never said a word about metrosexuals being girly men. Don’t know if they are in greater or lesser numbers than anybody else, but they are definitely more trendy. I am again curious why you went so hysterical on this and assumed things I didn’t say.

    “Have you given any consideration whatsoever to how you come across to others? ” -Jym.

    Not particularly, I say what I think. Was I supposed to wear a face most acceptable to most people? Isn’t that dishonest?

    Speaking of dishonesty you wrote this: “Something as simple as an innocuous comment about disappointment over someone’s entire career, spanning decades, being ruined, and you’re ready to say you don’t need a person disappointed about that supporting you? ”

    What I said about Zumbo is that I don’t care if he continues to be punished. It serves no real purpose. I even suggested that any that want to can send him their money. I don’t have any heartburn with someone feeling disappointment for Zumbo or his predicament. I certainly did feel disappointment for him. Not about his predicament, though. He has the right to his opinion, he doesn’t have the right to expect everyone to support it and they didn’t. He took a shot at greater fame. I suspect he was aiming at folks like your dad, and mine for that matter. If your father is as depicted, he is not on my side. It is just that simple. I don’t hate him for it, but I don’t want to count on him, either. Since if he is as depicted, he is only walking in the same direction a very short distance and not as a part of the restoration of unalienable rights and thus won’t be there when he is needed.

    So no, I don’t want to fool myself that we have support that we don’t have and are unlikely to ever have.

  10. straightarrow says:

    Go here, read this, perhaps you will understand better why I don’t want to count your father on my side. Too damn many , too damn unconcerned.

    http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/03/hanging-separately.html#comments

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. SayUncle » Another Letter from Zumbo - [...] Update 4: Sebastian has more on Zumbo’s sincerity. [...]
  2. Snowflakes in Hell » From The Comments - [...] friend Jym (I didn’t put him up to it, I swear) comments something that I think is worth pointing…
  3. LibertyNews.org - Liberty and Freedom for All » The Jim Zumbo Affair - [...] The blogs are aflame with opinions about Jim Zumbo’s betrayal of his fellow gun owners a few weeks back.…
top