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Jesus Wept: OCT President Unholsters Firearms in Public for Photo Op

Miguel, who is much more engaged with following anti-gun and pro-gun groups on social media than I could ever be, noticed something very important from Open Carry Texas’ statement the other day, quoting from their statement:

Black Powder revolvers have proven to be very effective and align with our goal of legalizing open carry with a handgun. We do understand that not everyone will be able to afford one, but if you can, we are requesting you do so. Almost every leader has gone to Black powder for a reason. It works.

I basically share Miguel’s reaction to this; what a wonderful idea. Surely no one would be alarmed greatly by a cap and ball revolver in a proper holster, right? Well, nope.

So here we have Open Carry Texas’ president in a public place, without any apparent holster I can see, finger fucking his side arm. A commenter on their Facebook page very wisely chastised [UPDATE: Seemingly has gone down the memory hole over there.]

 

IdiocyOnParade

“It’s not a firearm.” Dear God, is this really what we’re dealing with? Stop touching it! You have no business drawing a firearm in a public place unless it’s to protect life and limb. I echo the sentiments of Mr. Braaten: it doesn’t matter what the State of Texas calls it, or ATF calls it, for the purposes of safety and sensible carry protocol, if it launches a projectile at a speed sufficient to cause grave bodily injury or harm, it’s a firearm. It should be treated with the respect it deserves as a potentially deadly instrument.

Just when I want to start thinking better of this group, they up the ante on jackassery. I know some readers are tiring of this, but I honestly don’t care. These people are costing us hugely. They live up to everything the antis want the public to think about people who own and carry firearms. They have to be exposed for being the careless, thoughtless people they are. Back to Miguel:

If anything, it has been proven that their methods have been counterproductive delighting the Opposition (always looking for excuses to “stick it” to us) and garnering a massive amount of anger from Gun Owners who are tired of getting typecasted as brutish & dangerous people, undeserving of the right to Keep and Bear Arms. And they (we) are right to be pissed.

Amen. We’re going to be very lucky if we get through this without further damage. God give us the strength to deal with these thoughtless attention whores.

96 Responses to “Jesus Wept: OCT President Unholsters Firearms in Public for Photo Op”

  1. Guav says:

    I’m not tiring of your posts about these jackasses, I’m tiring of the need for your posts. They are doing the anti-gunner’s jobs for them.

  2. These guys need to be arrested for brandishing.

    The OC rifle dude in Chipotle was arguably brandishing (low ready/shouldered), and so is finger fucking a pistol in public.

    Beyond being arrested, if I see a person with a sidearm drawn and pointed in my direction, in just about every state I can make a good case for using deadly force in self defense. You can’t just wave pistols around in public.

    • Motor-T says:

      There is no “brandishing” statute in Texas.

      That said, google CJ Grisham. You’ll find that he is a nationally renowned a-hole from way back. How he became some sort of spokesman will be a mystery for the ages.

    • Jim Jones says:

      Under most legal circumstances, you are not even allowed to point the muzzle of a loaded firearm unless you are under threat of death or great bodily harm. Legally, it doesn’t matter if you don’t shoot. The law treats pointing and firing in much the same way when it comes to firearms. You could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon without ever discharging a round.

    • Patrick H says:

      No he doesn’t.

      And he wasn’t waving a pistol around.

      • HSR47 says:

        “And he wasn’t waving a pistol around.”

        The prime rule of carrying a firearm is quite simple: Don’t touch it unless there is an immediate threat towards which the use of deadly force is appropriate.

        He broke that rule, and that’s what people are (quite rightly) pissed about. On the whole, his MO seems to be to disturb the peace, rather than to effect positive change.

        • Patrick H says:

          I disagree. You can handle a pistol without an immediate threat, and I don’t subscribe to that rule. People are wrong to be pissed of. We can never touch our guns? Screw that.

          His MO is to challenge the status quo. That’s a good thing.

          • BC says:

            The status quo is, “Posing for a picture with an unholstered gat in a public place is dumb if for no other reason than it’s likely to alienate the muggles.”

            Challenging that status quo is not a good thing. It’s a retarded thing. To the extent that OCIYF advocates don’t grasp this, they’re my enemy as much as Shannon Watts.

      • Kirk Parker says:

        Idiot.

        So would you be as nonchalant if a police officer unholstered his pistol in your direction?

        I repeat: idiot.

        • Patrick H says:

          Thanks for the name calling. That REALLY proves your point.

          No I wouldn’t, but that’s not an analogous situation. A) He’s a member of the government, with more power than a normal citizen. B) This guy didn’t point his gun at anybody.

          So who’s the idiot now?

  3. mike says:

    You know, I think he might be interested in getting pistol OC legalized in Texas. Maybe. But if legalization of pistol OC was the goal, every action would answer the question: “What is the best way to get us one step closer to legalized pistol OC?” Instead, they answer the question: “How can we legally use guns to freak people out?”

    An attention whore, on the other hand, wouldn’t want pistol OC legalized any time soon. Then what would be the point of his organization? Why would anyone bother paying attention to him? Why would his OC lemmings give a damn what he has to say? So maybe all this attention whoring stems from a narcissist desire to keep the pistol OC fight going.

    • Drifter says:

      QFT

    • Patrick H says:

      Except you are completely wrong. They DO think this is the best way to do it. I disagree, I think OCing blackpowder pistols are better, and maybe empty holsters to make a better point.

      But they are not attention whores. They are fighting for our rights. I know you hate our open carry rights, so much so that I’d bet you be like that woman who’d call the cops on the guy who only had tattoos of guns on himself that were exposed.

      • HSR47 says:

        “Except you are completely wrong. They DO think this is the best way to do it. I disagree, I think OCing blackpowder pistols are better, and maybe empty holsters to make a better point.”

        From the looks of it, OCT is responsible for Starbucks, Jack in the Box, and Chipotle. Their antics have caused us MAJOR losses — Starbucks took well over a year to react, Jack in the Box took days, and Chipotle took hours. The next loss will be even quicker.

        It has been stipulated that the reaction to OC of cap & ball revolvers has been highly positive. Conversely, the OC of long guns has PROVEN to be an entirely counterproductive method of advocacy for them….

        That OCT, on an institutional level, advocates FOR the OC of long guns, and AGAINST the OC of C&B revolvers is all the evidence I need to declare them attention whores: They are more interested in fucking over every gun owner in this country than they are in actually getting legislative action to decriminalize the OC of modern pistols in Texas.

        • Patrick H says:

          What major issues? We have had NO major losses. NONE of them has banned guns. They only asked to stay out of the fight. I wouldn’t even classify any of them as losses, just neutral changes.

          If OCT things long guns are the best way, I’m willing to let them try.

          • Jamfish says:

            “What major issues? We have had NO major losses. …. I wouldn’t even classify any of them as losses, just neutral changes.”

            Great. Keep telling yourself that as we lose more neutral ground.

            I’m totally in favor of OC, but OCT is going about it SO wrong. This in-your-face model has the potential to be the death of the entire movement.

      • Sebastian says:

        I think they (OCT) are attention whores, and don’t think they are fighting for anything other than attention. I agree with you that they should be OCing black powder pistols (in a proper holster) if that is legal, and using empty holster protests.

        If they aren’t willing to do that without being all posing for the cameras, I can’t come to any other conclusion than this is about attention.

      • Beatbox says:

        Bullshit,

        I’ve never met a gunny who Hates Oc. To the contrary, the more carry up tons the better. But when a small group of people REPEATEDLY undertake actions that work against OC you expect the get respect and support? Ansr a question, do you actually thing these guys can change the landscape in their favor by keeping doing this?

        • Sebastian says:

          I didn’t think very highly of pistol OC when it first started up, because I was afraid that what’s happening now with long-gun OC would happen. Turns out I was wrong about that. I haven’t noticed that happen with pistol OC. I think most people don’t notice, and those that do assume if you’re doing it openly you have some reason or some authorization and don’t bother calling the cops. Now I’m mostly neutral on pistol OC. I don’t think it helps greatly, but nor do I think it harms, so if someone wants to do it as they go about their business, knock yourself out. There’s just no evidence it’s harmful. Long gun OC on the other hand, is everything I feared pistol OC would be and was wrong about.

        • Patrick H says:

          You’ve never met a gunny who hates OC? You need to meet more. We have one on this very post: mike. LOTS of gunnies hate OC.

          And I never said I support their exact actions. I think done right, it can have a positive effect. They haven’t done everything right, however.

      • mike w. says:

        All evidence points to them being attention whores, their behavior points to them being attention whores, and for the love of god if BP pistol OC was legal in TX all this time why the hell haven’t they been ding that all along instead of OC’ing long guns like morons?!

        • Patrick H says:

          No, all evidence points to those who hate rights and open carry calling them attention whores, as well as them being motivated to change the law.

          If the law allowed pistol open carry, these guys would disappear.

  4. HSR47 says:

    The real question here is how we can distance ourselves and our movement from this mooncalf without doing further damage (both PR and legally).

    • Sebastian says:

      That’s the 60,000 dollar question. I wish I knew. The fact is that sometimes jackasses can take us all along for a ride we have no desire to go on. And there’s not much we can do about it.

      • HSR47 says:

        This mooncalf is running OCT like that whole “MOVE” group…. We need to find a way to deal with him and his ilk before they get the antis to have the government burn down everything around them.

    • Renegade_Azzy says:

      I think a stronger question is how can we get the PR rules changed? We are trying to comply with a set of changing rules for PR, set by the very people who gave us PR and gun control.

      Is this the way to do it? Maybe not in small numbers. But if it were more common place, would it be a story?

    • dustydog says:

      Try to understand: it is not about you. They aren’t in PA, or NY, MD, CA. They are in Texas. If you aren’t in Texas, then they don’t owe you anything. They don’t have to fight your fight.

      Like Bill Clinton says, any press is good press. Be outraged now, but what will the low information Texas voters remember in 4 months? That regular people are allowed to carry guns in public, because that guy at that thing.

      • mike says:

        If you aren’t in Texas, then they don’t owe you anything. They don’t have to fight your fight.

        Except that their attention whoring anti-gun propaganda is being used effectively by Shannon Watts nationally. Or did I miss the part where Starbucks, Chipotle, Jack in the Box, etc said “Everyone but Texans can still bring your guns to our stores”?

  5. KM says:

    Stop touching it!

    Dear God yes.

    I will freely admit to being ignorant of TX laws.
    TX honors my AZ CCW permit so I never really looked that much further into their laws. But if TOC knows damn well that a cap & ball revo is OK, why the hell aren’t they using those in ALL their protests?
    Epic Fail (and knock yourself silly facepalm) on so many levels…

    • Drifter says:

      Either 2 or 3 (depending on which article you read) guys got arrested for open carry of BP pistols on Capitol grounds last September.

  6. mike says:

    According to their calendar, they’re going to build on their recent successes and spend next week trying to convince the Texas GOP that instead of legalizing pistol open carry, they should outlaw long gun open carry as well:

    Texas Republican State Convention Open Carry
    Here’s our opportunity to convince Republican lawmakers to adopt open carry as a platform issue and show them that an armed society is a polite society.

    We are asking that as many as can pay the $50 registration fee to be able to get closer and influence more people.

    When: Mon Jun 2 8am – Sat Jun 7, 2014 5pm
    Where: Fort Worth Convention Center, Houston Street, Fort Worth, TX

    http://tinyurl.com/n6qb5yq

    • Patrick H says:

      Oh no! How dare their exercise their rights to get more rights! The horror!

      • HSR47 says:

        OC of long guns has PROVEN to be politically counter-productive. Conversely, OC of BP revolvers has proven to be politically successful.

        Quite simply, if you want to be successful, you should do what has proven to work, rather than what has proven to be counterproductive.

        • Patrick H says:

          Except this hasn’t show to be proven to be counter productive. Its proven to freak our side out, and bring out the haters though. Hmmm, sounds like an anti-gunner’s reaction.

        • dustydog says:

          “proven” ? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

    • SPQR says:

      ** face palm ** epic fail.

  7. Zermoid says:

    So what? He’s not waving it around, there’s not even anyone else near him, and the muzzle is pressed into a huge chunk of concrete!

    Really, what’s the problem? It’s a posed picture. I’ve NEVER heard anyone gripe about equally posed pictures of scantily clad women with guns in public places, have you? What is it, because he’s a guy and not half naked?

    Get real, by the comments posted we should never have shooting competitions or target practice either!
    Both being in public places.

    • Sebastian says:

      This is on the lawn of a courthouse. When I say public place, I’m speaking of places that ordinary people, many of whom may not have familiarity with firearms frequent. Obviously a range is different. They are private property usually, and even when it’s a public range, it’s a range. So I’ll qualify it. In any public place that isn’t intended to be used for firearms.

      And yes, I’d suggest that scantily clad women if they were posing in front a court house or public park shouldn’t be handling firearms.

    • RP says:

      I’ve never seen scantily clad women handling guns in public. And even if it did happen, I doubt they were presidents of a gun rights group. That makes you a public figure for the cause, and you need to be aware of that and be unimpeachable in your behavior in public.

      Shannon Watts is watching him and waiting for behavior she can exploit.

    • Patrick H says:

      My thoughts exact. We are really eating our own here for no good reason. I have no problem with what he did.

      • HSR47 says:

        When you’re playing football, and some of your teammates get together and score an own goal you get the team together to make sure everyone understands what the did, why it was wrong, and how to do better next time.

        That’s ALL we’re doing: OCT has thus far succeeded in scoring THREE own-goals on the gun owners of this country, and we’re just trying to get the team together so that EVERYONE understands what happened, why it happened, and most importantly how we can avoid it happening in the future.

        We want exactly what OCT professes to want: The nationwide expansion of carry rights to include whatever mode of carry each individual chooses is best for him/her. What we DON’T want, is people who profess to be on our side to keep scoring goals for our political opponents, while making us ALL look bad in the process.

        • SPQR says:

          This

        • Patrick H says:

          Except that’s not an analogous situation. They didn’t score in our own goal. In fact, nothing changed except some sternly written letters.

          So everything you wrote is irrelevant.

          • BC says:

            Because of the outré behavior of a few individuals in Texas, a national restaurant chain went from being basically agnostic on the issue to affirmatively asking patrons not to carry in any of its locations.

            If you genuinely want to normalize carry, how you imagine that’s not an own-goal is beyond me.

            • Geodkyt says:

              BC — The answer you’re looking for is, “Denial, it’s not just a river in Egypt.”

  8. Jack Spadoni says:

    It makes you wonder ‘What the hell were they thinking?’ I’m not against open carry, and in fact it should be legal, but they have to realize that what they’re doing isn’t helping. And the incident at Chipolte …..thoughtless attention whores indeed! What were they trying to prove? Anyone with half a brain should have know that that wouldn’t end well. To me, that was the same as the LGBT crowd demanding equal rights and then you get coverage of the Gay Pride parade in SF with hairy guy in assless chaps up on a parade float.

  9. Matt R. says:

    I am not usually the devils advocate here, but what if a cop did this for reporters? The world (both sides of the debate) would be openly calling out “Crucify him!”….

    –Matt R.

    • HSR47 says:

      In the cases where a cop acts a fool with a gun (like that one jackass who used a laser mounted to his duty gun as a laser pointer during a presentation) the public outcry is generally to get him fired.

      Since the head of OCT isn’t a public employee, such an outcry is not on as firm a footing.

      That said, a campaign to get him removed from any position of authority within OCT is likely the best possible way to handle this situation.

  10. FNG19 says:

    I imagine that this kind of nonsense is why PA has the dreaded “character and reputation” clause. As this kind of stuff happens more and more (the “Starbucks Effect”), it’s going to be increasingly more difficult to argue that said clause should be eliminated — not to mention trying to press for ConCarry.

    Not only are these guys hurting themselves and their putative cause, they’re hurting all of the rest of us, too.

  11. Richard says:

    Your website wouldn’t let me paste a picture of Charlton Heston but you know which one I mean. For all your commentators who want the OTC guy arrested for brandishing, be careful what you wish for. And don’t try the David Gregory defense.

    And you, Sebastian, are engaging in personal attacks rather than tactic criticism again.

    • Sebastian says:

      Yeah, I am. I’m tired of this jackass. And Heston wasn’t carrying the firearm. It was presented. Context matters a great deal. Why does this need to be explained? YEs, there are circumstances where handing a gun in public is OK. It’s not OK to handle a firearm when you’re carrying it in a public place where other people are around who aren’t going to get the context.

      Do you people have no concept of nuance?

      And I’m reading more about this CJ Grishom. Expect more personal attacks to come if he keeps caking like a doofus.

    • benEzra says:

      “Your website wouldn’t let me paste a picture of Charlton Heston but you know which one I mean.”

      You mean the picture taken *inside the NRA’s annual meeting*, rather than on a courthouse lawn?

      • Richard says:

        Rule One applies everywhere. I am sure that Heston’s musket was unloaded. Nobody seemed to inquire whether the cap and ball revolver in TX was. Rule One says they were both loaded. And you are using the David Gregory defense. Mind you, I supported Heston’s actions but there is not one law for him and another for the OTC people (other than that caused by different state laws).

        I wish that people here would save their invective for The Enemy. After all we just had another massacre in a gun free zone, about which I hear crickets.

        • Zermoid says:

          This is what I was meaning in my earlier post. The Place should be irrelevant IMO, if it is somewhere with other random people present it is therefore public. A parking lot is public altho private property in most cases, is it not?
          Why is something OK in one public place and not in another?

          And even more asinine in my opinion is why a civilian wearing a certain outfit is OK to open carry in Texas, and another is not?

          That piece of tin they wear conveys no magical super powers I am aware of…..

          • Sebastian says:

            It comes down to context. If you’re being presented a pistol at an NRA event (it should be presented in a case), if you pulled it out and posed with it… well, in truth I wouldn’t think too highly of it. But you can’t take this stuff to utterly ridiculous extremes. It is a bit of a balancing act. If your only point in having a pistol in your hand, and unholstered, in a place generally frequented by the public, is to pose for a picture, you should probably rethink.

        • mike says:

          So where’s the picture of Charlton Heston open carrying outside the courthouse?

          What the attention whores ignore is the outcome of their attention whoring. The question isn’t whether it’s legal or should be acceptable for people to stroll around in coffee shops and restaurants and courthouses with rifles. The question is, does doing so advance their cause? It’s been shown repeatedly to be counterproductive. Copious amounts of negative media attention and newly revised gun policies at an ever growing list of national chains can attest to that.

          Yet some of these attention whores truly believe they’re victims:
          http://tinyurl.com/nfdqscd

          Victims of having to bring a rifle into a Chipotles I suppose. Everyone outside their circle jerk collectively rolls their eyes at this stuff, but they truly feel persecuted. All insults and joking aside, I think that a bunch of these guys are somewhere on the autism spectrum.

          Their stated purpose was to get pistol OC legalized in Texas. Both gubernatorial candidates are on the record saying they’re on board. You’d think these clowns would try to show that this is a good position and they’re making the right choice. Yet instead, they just ramp up the crazy and get more in everyones’ faces. They may just succeed in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. And the worse part is, they won’t acknowledge that it was all their own undoing.

          • Richard says:

            “So where’s the picture of Charlton Heston open carrying outside the courthouse?”

            Don’t have that but I do have a picture of Sen. McConnell OCing a long gun at CPAC to the apparent surprise of the organizers (and handing the gun to Sen. Coburn without clearing it). I also have a picture of Gov. Perry doing something with a revolver in a public place. He is wearing a suit so I don’t think he is at the range. The gun is either under recoil or he is casting while aiming.

            It is inappropriate to recommend the arrest of someone doing something with a gun just because you think he is a asshole as people have done here. If you really want to do that, Diane Feinstein is available. Get a grip, people, and save the 10 minute hate for The Enemy. The Enemy wants to arrest all of us. Go read Joe Huffman’s collection of quotes.

            • mike says:

              And what are your thoughts on the rest of what I said?

              In addition to that, do you think that attention whoring with guns in public places and restaurants is the best way to advance pro-gun bills?

              • Patrick H says:

                Yes it is. Clearly it is. Because its worked. REPEATEDLY.

                • mike says:

                  Because its worked. REPEATEDLY.</block
                  Oh yeah, sure, it worked to repeatedly create gun fee zones in places that were previously gun friendly:
                  – California Pizza Kitchen
                  – Peet's Coffee
                  – Starbucks
                  – Chipotle
                  ..to name a few.

                  And we mustn't forget that the State of California lost open carry because of all the OC attention whoring there. I'll give the OC activists credit though, they really put their hours in on that one. If only they would work as hard to advance gun rights instead.

                  So if these are examples of what you call "working", I'd really like to know what you'd consider a backfire.

                  I think it was Sebastian that made this point: there exists an enthusiasm gap between gun rights supporters and anti-gun activists. Most people just don't get excited to get up and rally to restrict guns, whereas when gun owners are threatened with more laws they come out in droves, support pro-gun candidates, and vote.

                  What this OC attention whoring does is increases the enthusiasm for the anti-gun activists, gets them all riled up and they start making phone calls, writing emails, sending letters, etc. Shannon Watts is happy to direct their attention to these national chains – and to Congress. To our detriment, of course. That’s the problem. It’s counterproductive for our side, and it energizes the opposition. But it does give attention whores their much needed attention, and so it continues..

                  • Richard says:

                    CA didn’t lose OC. They lost unloaded OC which is worse than useless. In return, they got the 9th Circuit opinion. Not a final victory yet but a victory none the less. And it appears to be final victory at least in Orange County and Guam.

                    • Drifter says:

                      Your implication is one of causality that losing unloaded open carry caused the Peruta decision. Do you mind going over that for me, please? I’m not seeing the causality. Thanks.

                      Perhaps that would make me understand OCT’s tactics better.

                    • Geodkyt says:

                      Drfiter — the nexus between OC whores causing the only unlicensed carry method legal in California to be banned is that by doing so, they made it impossible for anyone to exercise an enumerated right in many counties in California – because “self defense” wasn’t being accepted as a legitimate reason in those counties for getting a carry permit.

                      The nexus is weak, but does exist.

                  • Richard says:

                    Mike, I think that Patrick H is on your side.

                  • Patrick H says:

                    And all those places still allow guns. And we musn’t forget that banning open carry was a long term goal of anti-gunners, and they open carriers there did nothing that would have changed that. However, they still got shall issue.

                • SPQR says:

                  Nope, it has not.

              • Richard says:

                For the moment, I will stipulate that you may be correct about the efficacy of OCT tactics, though the evidence is sketchy. Even with this stipulation you are still wrong because your tactics suck. For three reasons: 1.Denouncing OCT won’t cause them to stop but will encourage them to continue. Because you are the Establishment and tweaking the Establishment is always attractive. 2. If OTC is giving The Enemy taking points, then so are you. They thrive on trying to divide us. The alleged gun handling violations at the OTC event would never have been noticed by The Enemy if it had not been brought up here and elsewhere. I offer as evidence, the sweeping of the crowd by DiFi at her events and the guy in the Bloomberg TV ad pointing the shotgun at the children. They are clueless unless we help them. Personally, I think The Enemy would just fabricate stuff to make their points but if you are worried about OTC actions, you have to own yours. 3.All this has distracted our side from making the obvious point about gun-free zones which was just waiting to be made after the latest massacre.

                • Guav says:

                  “Denouncing OCT won’t cause them to stop but will encourage them to continue.”

                  So they are 5 year olds?

                  • Richard says:

                    Do you want to be effective or feel superior?

                    • Geodkyt says:

                      Um, since that is the sort of behavior that immature children (and people with clinical Oppositional defiance Behavior disorders) express, it isnt about feeling superior.

                      It’s about pointing out an objective fact — if denouncing a supposed pro-rights group that their tactics are counterproductive, and why, only causes them to do it more, only harder, then they are acting like children.

                • mike says:

                  Because you are the Establishment and tweaking the Establishment is always attractive.

                  I’m not the establishment – I’m a gun owner who doesn’t appreciate supposed gun rights groups working overtime to help people trying to destroy my gun rights. Oh, and all the while having those useful idiots adamantly proclaim that they’re helping and that anyone who disagrees is anti-gun. That’s BS, and it borders on pathological. See my earlier comments about these folks being on the autism spectrum. In my view, it’s either that or they’re on Bloomberg’s payroll.

                  3.All this has distracted our side from making the obvious point about gun-free zones which was just waiting to be made after the latest massacre.

                  Oh that’s rich. If you really think gun free zones are so bad, then stop trying so hard to make new ones.

                  • Richard says:

                    From a tactical point of view, it doesn’t matter whether you think you are the Establishment, it matters what they think.

                    And no one here was talking about gun-free zones until I brought it up.

                  • Patrick H says:

                    I love how you insult them with comments like “pathological” and “autism spectrum”. You result to insults instead of facts, because you have none.

                    And they aren’t trying to make gun free zones- and its worked because there haven’t been any new ones. You however are working to make them. Good job.

                    • mike says:

                      Holy shit, guy. I think you’re honest-to-goodness delusional. Like, not the “I’m calling you names on the internet” delusional, but actually clinically delusional. It’s like someone says the sky is blue, and you get all bent out of shape insisting its cheeseburger instead, and that the only reason people keep saying it’s blue is because they obviously hate grilled food. Please stop helping us, and get some help for yourself instead.

            • Sebastian says:

              I’m certainly not calling for anyone to be arrested. But I am calling for exercising better judgement in not pulling out a firearm in a place frequented by the public, who lack context for what’s going on, for nothing more than a photo op.

              Unfortunately, public figures can get away with staged photo ops more than others, because there’s a big difference between an NRA convention, or a campaign press event, where everyone knows what’s going on, and outside of a courthouse in a public place where people passing by or observing may not have any context for what’s going on.

              • Richard says:

                No, you didn’t call for arrests but others in this thread did. And you did engage in demonizing. I am talking about the effectiveness of your tactics, not theirs.

                • Sebastian says:

                  OK, just wanted to be clear on that. For the record, I disagree with people calling for arrest. I don’t think this is brandishing. I think it’s just not smart gun handling in a public space.

        • Guav says:

          Here’s the thing though—if someone’s goal is expansion of gun rights, and they perceive OCT’s actions to be counterproductive or even harmful to that end, then OCT is the enemy, whether they have good motivations or not. If what they are doing ends up rallying popular support any enables the passage of gun laws that restrict gun rights further, then they are no better than Bloomberg or The Brady Campaign or any of that ilk. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

          • Richard says:

            No they are not the enemy. They are people who you disagree with about tactics. And while this group is hyperventilating about this. Here is what The Enemy is up to.

            http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/elliot-rodger-guns-feinstein-nra-stranglehold/?dcz=

            • Sebastian says:

              OCT has been more effective at handing the gun control groups victories than Diane Feinstein has been in the past several years.

              • Richard says:

                If you consider a Facebook post or a press release to be a victory, I would call it even. As far as I can tell no place has actually been posted and no person has been trespassed. Again, I am not arguing for their tactics but questioning yours.

                • Patrick H says:

                  That’s what I don’t get. We all know there have been no changes, and the other side can claim victory all they want. OCT’s tactics haven’t been great.

                  But you know what? If they are attention whores like people keep saying they are, how does giving them MORE attention actually help? Its like feeding a fire in that case.

                  • Drifter says:

                    When a property owner makes a polite request in plain English regarding my conduct on their property, I’m obliged to respect that.

    • Beatbox says:

      Sometimes the tactic is inextricably tied to the person being a low-IQ attention whore who didn’t get enough hugs from daddy. It needs to be pointed out.

      • Patrick H says:

        No, insulting people does not win converts. Calling names and insulting is what the anti-gunners do. “Gun nuts”, “Crazies” are the same as “Idiots” “Attention Whores” “Low-IQers”. If we want to be better than them, we need to ACT like it.

  12. Reading the twitter legalistic pettifogging (“it’s not a firearm! So there!”) from the OCT jackass, it looks to me like the cretin in California isn’t the only socially retarded aspie giving guns a bad name.

    “OK, we’re going to stop scaring them with our budget/bubba’d M4geries and tacticold SKSes, now we’ll scare the crap out of them with black powder guns that only a gun-culture habitué can distinguish from cartridge revolvers!”

    It’s the Underpants Gnomes meet political activism:

    1. MOAR GUNZ!!!!1!!!
    2. Scare people to the point of incontinence!
    3. ?
    4. Win cultural and legislative prizes!

    Other than that, it’s kind of hard to improve upon what Sebastian, Miguel, Bob Owens, and many others have written.

    • Beatbox says:

      I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that those OCT people who DO have a concealed carry license, also carry a conceal carry badge with they do carry that way.

      The reason for harshness and “personal attacks” is because they won’t respond to logical arguments. They have made that clear. No matter their site says, their only motivation is to get attention from SOMEONE. Their ‘tactic’ is a failure and they know it.

      I’ve seen this type elsewhere, I am willing to bet that you interviewed each of these folks, they’d admit that their lives are not as “successful” as they would have hoped (be it in love, career, or what not). AND they have a long list of people to blame for their lack of success.

  13. Sigivald says:

    “Don’t scare the white people”, as I believe Uncle calls it.

    It’s a good plan. Don’t look like idiots. Doesn’t matter if it’s legal, doesn’t matter if it managed to obey The Five Rules.

    Proper carrying means not waving it around like a feather-duster even if it’s pointed up and your finger’s not on the trigger.

  14. dustydog says:

    Awkward young men doing stupid stuff for attention. Might as well complain about them not wearing bow ties and suspenders, like gentlemen should. Next thing you know, they will be courting ladies without escorts and driving those confounded auto mobiles!

    Historically, complaints about the poor judgement of youngsters reflects more upon the writers than the youngster.

  15. Joe_in_Pitt says:

    Ever heard of the expression “hearts and minds”? When I would visit ports in the Middle East during my Navy days we would be briefed on proper discourse when we were out and about. Things like being polite and not drawing attention to yourself, not walking and eating at the same time, trying not to be blatant about eating during the day while everyone else was fasting, etc. Could I have been loud and obnoxious, chomping down a ham sandwich while walking around a mall during Ramadan? Sure, I wouldn’t get arrested, but it definitely wouldn’t score me or my fellow countrymen any points.

    One of the biggest reasons why we’ve done so well in the last handful of years has been the ability to win on the cultural front. Suddenly it’s become “cool” to be concerned about self-defense, and that includes scary black rifles. The anti-gunners know this and realize they have a real problem on their hands once their otherwise stalwart-demographics start to slip from their grasp, and the gun groups start to make great use of things like social media and well-produced images and videos which appeal to younger folks.

    OCT and groups like them are doing nothing to help win the hearts and minds. Doing things legally? Sure. Doing them smartly? Not really.

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