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More on the Georgia Case

Dave Hardy has some more details on the case in Georgia:

Here’s the rub: if the offense of CCW were worded as “it is unlawful to carry a weapon concealed without a permit,” then lack of a permit is part of the offense, and until there is reason to suspect that, there is no probable cause. But if it is worded as “It is unlawful to carry a weapon concealed. Exception for people having permits,” then concealed carrying is the offense, and sufficient suspicion of that justifies an arrest or detention. Having the permit is a defense, and the officer doesn’t have to rule that out, any more than he has to rule out insanity, justification, etc..

Looking at Pennsylvania’s Uniform Firearms Act:

(a) Offense defined.–

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

So we’re actually different from Georgia in that regard, meaning there’d have to be some reasonable suspicion that you had a firearm and did not have a license, according to Dave’s criteria.

One Response to “More on the Georgia Case”

  1. Laci the Dog says:

    If I haven’t said it before, I’ll say it here: In a way most jurisdictions have a “Vermont style CCW” policy.

    That is citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission if they are of good moral character (although I copied out VT’s laws and the website for this).

    In real terms, the cops are profiling you. Someone who looks like an upstanding citizen won’t get hassled. Someone who looks doubtful and/or is somewhere they shouldn’t be will attract attention.

    Usual case is the middle class white kid who is near a crappy drug corner is going to attract suspicion they are there to buy drugs. Likewise, you print and look doubtful you will get hassled.

    The cops usally bust people and then search them.

    So, practically, it’s like registration. Not having a permit will be questioned if the cops pick you up for some other offense and they find a gun. They will verify the permit and you can go.

    Worse case scenario is like the one Sebastian and I am having off line where my client was picked up with a non-resident Florida permit. He was charged for not having a permit. We had a preliminary hearing date. The case was continued and Philly is going to check with Florida to verify the permit.

    There are other issues here, but I would prefer not to mention them on line.

    http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/sections.cfm?Title=13&Chapter=085

    http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/faq1.html#VermontGun
    Please be aware that Vermont does not at this time require or issue gun permits. Some Vermont towns and cities do have local ordinances, so if you are planning on visiting, it would be wise to contact the local police chief to find information pertaining to local information.
    http://www.atg.state.vt.us/issues/gun-laws.php
    Title 13:
    Section 4003. Carrying dangerous weapons
    A person who carries a dangerous or deadly weapon, openly or concealed, with the intent or avowed purpose of injuring a fellow man, or who carries a dangerous or deadly weapon within any state institution or upon the grounds or lands owned or leased for the use of such institution, without the approval of the warden or superintendent of the institution shall be imprisoned not more than two years or fined not more than $200.00, or both.

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