Comments on: Tragedy, But Could Have Been Worse http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/ The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:20:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bitter http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50932 Bitter Sat, 10 Oct 2009 21:16:25 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50932 What do you mean you haven't gone far enough on the blog? The update post on this is higher up on the blog. Yes, he has covered the situation. What do you mean you haven’t gone far enough on the blog? The update post on this is higher up on the blog. Yes, he has covered the situation.

]]> By: sauerkraut http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50931 sauerkraut Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:55:33 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50931 Haven't gone far enough in your blog to see if you covered this further but it's been (almost) confirmed that Mr. Hain pumped 6 shots into her while she was on the webcam with an unidentified male, and then walked upstairs where he shot himself with a shotgun. Her backpack, with a fully-loaded glock therein, was but a few feet from her body. Interesting that she felt the need to carry at a little kids' soccer game because of possible domestic violence issues with the husband. The soccer coach who turned her in is said to have known her, but he didn't know of her marital issues? Some people say he knew or should have known and, due to him being the chief public defender in Lebanan County, should have made a referal to the county agency responsible for reaching out to women in troubled relationships. Instead, he complained to the county sheriff. And we all know how that went. Seems like Charlie Jones either did not know the law or turned his back on the law. But he now wants a seat on the bench in the Court of Common Pleas. Shouldn't a judicial candidate know the law? Did his apparent lack of knowledge contribute to the events which lead to Meleanie Hain losing her life? Haven’t gone far enough in your blog to see if you covered this further but it’s been (almost) confirmed that Mr. Hain pumped 6 shots into her while she was on the webcam with an unidentified male, and then walked upstairs where he shot himself with a shotgun.

Her backpack, with a fully-loaded glock therein, was but a few feet from her body.

Interesting that she felt the need to carry at a little kids’ soccer game because of possible domestic violence issues with the husband. The soccer coach who turned her in is said to have known her, but he didn’t know of her marital issues? Some people say he knew or should have known and, due to him being the chief public defender in Lebanan County, should have made a referal to the county agency responsible for reaching out to women in troubled relationships.

Instead, he complained to the county sheriff. And we all know how that went. Seems like Charlie Jones either did not know the law or turned his back on the law. But he now wants a seat on the bench in the Court of Common Pleas.

Shouldn’t a judicial candidate know the law? Did his apparent lack of knowledge contribute to the events which lead to Meleanie Hain losing her life?

]]> By: Tam http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50814 Tam Fri, 09 Oct 2009 02:09:48 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50814 <blockquote>So… looks like the overzealous parent she should have been worried about was living in her own home. And, bonus, the kids get to see gun violence up close and personal.</blockquote> You're getting blood on your socks,darling. Maybe you could send that as an email to the children?

So… looks like the overzealous parent she should have been worried about was living in her own home. And, bonus, the kids get to see gun violence up close and personal.

You’re getting blood on your socks,darling.

Maybe you could send that as an email to the children?

]]> By: Melancton Smith http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50798 Melancton Smith Thu, 08 Oct 2009 20:07:42 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50798 Sadly, I think this tragedy highlights two important things. 1. No one should stay in an abusive domestic situation. As a child who's mother was physically abused, I have been scarred for life. 2. A gun is not guarantee of protection, but I still maintain it is better to have and not need than need and not have. No one can be on Condition Red 24 hours a day. Sadly, I think this tragedy highlights two important things. 1. No one should stay in an abusive domestic situation. As a child who’s mother was physically abused, I have been scarred for life. 2. A gun is not guarantee of protection, but I still maintain it is better to have and not need than need and not have. No one can be on Condition Red 24 hours a day.

]]> By: Bitter http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50789 Bitter Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:19:01 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50789 I agree. I would even argue that I don't expect what we know to change. From the sounds of it, she talked to dozens of people about her concerns about her husband and there is little incentive for that neighbor to lie about what he heard the children say. But, I was just looking at some of the articles and realized that for those who have only read one or two pieces on it, they may be under the wrong impression. Some might argue media bias, but that's not the case in all of the stories. It's really a matter of hearsay and trying to establish the facts when few really know what happened. And I would add that for those who are actually doing the dancing, there is no excuse because just like there's no official confirmation that he shot her first, there's not confirmation that their assumptions are correct, either. I agree. I would even argue that I don’t expect what we know to change. From the sounds of it, she talked to dozens of people about her concerns about her husband and there is little incentive for that neighbor to lie about what he heard the children say. But, I was just looking at some of the articles and realized that for those who have only read one or two pieces on it, they may be under the wrong impression. Some might argue media bias, but that’s not the case in all of the stories. It’s really a matter of hearsay and trying to establish the facts when few really know what happened.

And I would add that for those who are actually doing the dancing, there is no excuse because just like there’s no official confirmation that he shot her first, there’s not confirmation that their assumptions are correct, either.

]]> By: Arizona Rifleman http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50787 Arizona Rifleman Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:10:40 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50787 Bitter: You're correct. I think I may wait for additional details to surface before commenting more. That said, I find the people who are dancing in the blood of the slain quite repugnant. Bitter: You’re correct. I think I may wait for additional details to surface before commenting more.

That said, I find the people who are dancing in the blood of the slain quite repugnant.

]]> By: Bitter http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50786 Bitter Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:47:35 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50786 AZ Rifleman, remember that many of the media reports (other than the local ones) haven't given any indication that her husband was the first shooter. The police haven't issued any statement on that because they showed up after it was over. The bodies weren't even in the same part of the house. The only report we have that he was the shooter stems from one neighbor who says he heard one of the kids say "Daddy shot Mommy." Not all the reporters have that because, I would presume, most haven't talked to that neighbor. But reports starting even last night showed that different neighbors heard different things on gun shots (some heard more than one, some heard one, some heard nothing at all, and some said the loud noises they heard didn't really sound like gun shots) and regarding to the kids (some said they heard them scream, some said it sounded like they were playing, and only one reported the specific statement). Her lawyer is now talking to the press and indicating that she at least looked into a restraining order, though it appears she never sought one. Maybe that will tone down some of the comments since it's not clear to people who haven't Googled for more information that she wasn't the shooter. Whether we like it or not, the fact that she conducted many interviews as an advocate, there is simply more information about her being attached to guns. There wasn't much available for early reports about the husband because he avoided the media. AZ Rifleman, remember that many of the media reports (other than the local ones) haven’t given any indication that her husband was the first shooter. The police haven’t issued any statement on that because they showed up after it was over. The bodies weren’t even in the same part of the house. The only report we have that he was the shooter stems from one neighbor who says he heard one of the kids say “Daddy shot Mommy.” Not all the reporters have that because, I would presume, most haven’t talked to that neighbor. But reports starting even last night showed that different neighbors heard different things on gun shots (some heard more than one, some heard one, some heard nothing at all, and some said the loud noises they heard didn’t really sound like gun shots) and regarding to the kids (some said they heard them scream, some said it sounded like they were playing, and only one reported the specific statement).

Her lawyer is now talking to the press and indicating that she at least looked into a restraining order, though it appears she never sought one. Maybe that will tone down some of the comments since it’s not clear to people who haven’t Googled for more information that she wasn’t the shooter. Whether we like it or not, the fact that she conducted many interviews as an advocate, there is simply more information about her being attached to guns. There wasn’t much available for early reports about the husband because he avoided the media.

]]> By: Arizona Rifleman http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50784 Arizona Rifleman Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:18:07 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50784 To clarify: I'm not claiming that anyone here believes that Mrs. Hain's possession of firearms lead to her murder. Rather, I'm simply saying that I've seen other individuals, in other media, make that claim, which I find absurd. Just wanted to make sure there was no confusion. To clarify: I’m not claiming that anyone here believes that Mrs. Hain’s possession of firearms lead to her murder. Rather, I’m simply saying that I’ve seen other individuals, in other media, make that claim, which I find absurd.

Just wanted to make sure there was no confusion.

]]> By: Arizona Rifleman http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50782 Arizona Rifleman Thu, 08 Oct 2009 16:03:08 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50782 Sebastian: Again, I must respectfully disagree -- Mr. Hain was a parole officer (or at least that's what I've been lead to believe; correct me if I'm wrong), and would have access to firearms in the course of his duties. I fail how any reasonable person could claim that the victim was more likely to be murdered by her husband because she owned firearms. Even if someone could make a claim (and indeed, I've seen the claim made several times in the various comments of the PennLive article), I fail to see how any reasonable person could possibly believe it. I've seen people claim that if Melaine didn't own firearms, she likely would have been alive today. This makes very little sense to me. Clearly, the blame should rest soundly on the perpetrator of the crime and not on the material possessions of the victim. Sebastian: Again, I must respectfully disagree — Mr. Hain was a parole officer (or at least that’s what I’ve been lead to believe; correct me if I’m wrong), and would have access to firearms in the course of his duties.

I fail how any reasonable person could claim that the victim was more likely to be murdered by her husband because she owned firearms. Even if someone could make a claim (and indeed, I’ve seen the claim made several times in the various comments of the PennLive article), I fail to see how any reasonable person could possibly believe it.

I’ve seen people claim that if Melaine didn’t own firearms, she likely would have been alive today. This makes very little sense to me.

Clearly, the blame should rest soundly on the perpetrator of the crime and not on the material possessions of the victim.

]]> By: The Arizona Rifleman » Blog Archive » Melaine Hain http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/10/07/tragedy-but-could-have-been-worse/#comment-50780 The Arizona Rifleman » Blog Archive » Melaine Hain Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:36:05 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=13421#comment-50780 [...] to various sources, Melaine Hain has been [...] [...] to various sources, Melaine Hain has been [...]

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