Comments on: I Think the Man is Itching to See a Zumboing http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/ The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:52:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rob K http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-46063 Rob K Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:19:37 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-46063 I think Sugarman may be making the mistake of thinking we're all herd animals like his ilk -- that there's no room for any sort of dissent among us. From what I've seen of their type, only the herd leader expresses an opinion, and all the rest echo it mindlessly. Dissent from the received orthodoxy is met with instant ostracizism. I don't think he gets that we practically thrive on disagreement. I think Sugarman may be making the mistake of thinking we’re all herd animals like his ilk — that there’s no room for any sort of dissent among us. From what I’ve seen of their type, only the herd leader expresses an opinion, and all the rest echo it mindlessly. Dissent from the received orthodoxy is met with instant ostracizism. I don’t think he gets that we practically thrive on disagreement.

]]> By: Frank W. James http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-46057 Frank W. James Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:09:48 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-46057 As per the "...35 yards..." defensive distance thing, it all depends upon where you live. In my particular instance if an evil person had a .30/30 pointed at me and was taking cover at 44 yards (the distance from my back door to the corn crib) I and my family would still be in great peril. Yes, I would engage him and it wouldn't be with a shotgun. Might not even be with an EBR in 5.56, maybe 6.8SPC, but living in a rural area changes things.......or at least IT SHOULD because distances and threats are RELATIVE!! All The Best, Frank W. James As per the “…35 yards…” defensive distance thing, it all depends upon where you live.

In my particular instance if an evil person had a .30/30 pointed at me and was taking cover at 44 yards (the distance from my back door to the corn crib) I and my family would still be in great peril.

Yes, I would engage him and it wouldn’t be with a shotgun. Might not even be with an EBR in 5.56, maybe 6.8SPC, but living in a rural area changes things…….or at least IT SHOULD because distances and threats are RELATIVE!!

All The Best,
Frank W. James

]]> By: SayUncle » On differences http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-46049 SayUncle » On differences Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:24:50 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-46049 [...] notes the difference between what Zumbo said and what Jan Libourel said. And tells us why it’s different. The trouble is that to someone with the mental faculties [...] [...] notes the difference between what Zumbo said and what Jan Libourel said. And tells us why it’s different. The trouble is that to someone with the mental faculties [...]

]]> By: Matt Groom http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-46047 Matt Groom Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:19:49 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-46047 I tend to agree with Jan Libourel on his opinion, and with everyone else that Josh Sugarmann is a tool. If it wasn't for Asshats like Sugarmann, I would probably own a 12 gauge pump and a S&W Revolver as my only guns, but since I've been told since I was very young that someday almost every kind of firearm I like will be outlawed, I have labored arduously to acquire as many different kinds and types as I could. Not because I use them, but because I might want to someday. I shoot my .38's more than anything else, but am I gonna sell all of my semi-autos? Nope. And I could use the money, too. But because people like Sugarmann are always trying to play divide and conquer, I won't sell any of my guns, even the ones I don't like. I tend to agree with Jan Libourel on his opinion, and with everyone else that Josh Sugarmann is a tool. If it wasn’t for Asshats like Sugarmann, I would probably own a 12 gauge pump and a S&W Revolver as my only guns, but since I’ve been told since I was very young that someday almost every kind of firearm I like will be outlawed, I have labored arduously to acquire as many different kinds and types as I could. Not because I use them, but because I might want to someday. I shoot my .38′s more than anything else, but am I gonna sell all of my semi-autos? Nope. And I could use the money, too. But because people like Sugarmann are always trying to play divide and conquer, I won’t sell any of my guns, even the ones I don’t like.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45979 Sebastian Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:09:03 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45979 No, no. No threadjack. They are good points. No, no. No threadjack. They are good points.

]]> By: Tanner http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45978 Tanner Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:01:52 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45978 "An AR-15 has the advantage of ammunition capacity, and ability to penetrate cover." Don't forget quicker/easier follow up shots, the ability to defeat soft body armor, and precision. Using most standard buckshot loads, you are going to be throwing a few of those pellets wide once you get past 20 or so yards. Hitting someone in the bean with a rifle within 25 yards is not a terribly difficult shot, especially if you have some kind of red-dot optic (and of course some decent training). I understand people don't stand still to get hit, but getting all 9 buckshot pellets on a moving target isn't a simple task either. I like shotguns, I own a 870 police magnum and an 1187 police magnum, I just find them limited in what they can do. They are an excellent tool for what they excel at, but a rifle can do so much more. As far as someone being a deadly threat from 35 yards away? I have an easy example, how bout they are shooting a gun, either at you or someone else? Or how bout they shot at you, and then ran towards cover? I apologize for the semi-threadjack... Just felt the need to bolster your argument that we can have intelligent discussions about tactics and "tool" selection without losing our minds. “An AR-15 has the advantage of ammunition capacity, and ability to penetrate cover.”

Don’t forget quicker/easier follow up shots, the ability to defeat soft body armor, and precision. Using most standard buckshot loads, you are going to be throwing a few of those pellets wide once you get past 20 or so yards.

Hitting someone in the bean with a rifle within 25 yards is not a terribly difficult shot, especially if you have some kind of red-dot optic (and of course some decent training). I understand people don’t stand still to get hit, but getting all 9 buckshot pellets on a moving target isn’t a simple task either.

I like shotguns, I own a 870 police magnum and an 1187 police magnum, I just find them limited in what they can do. They are an excellent tool for what they excel at, but a rifle can do so much more.

As far as someone being a deadly threat from 35 yards away? I have an easy example, how bout they are shooting a gun, either at you or someone else? Or how bout they shot at you, and then ran towards cover?

I apologize for the semi-threadjack… Just felt the need to bolster your argument that we can have intelligent discussions about tactics and “tool” selection without losing our minds.

]]> By: jefferson101 http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45971 jefferson101 Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:45:34 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45971 What's the problem with Libourel's having an opinion on the proper urban self-defense weapon? Personally, I don't do Glocks or mouse guns, but if someone else wants to? And as far as the statement that "Only a madman would oppose all gun control.", color me sane, then. I've noted on several occasions that, while I would have no problem with my neighbor having a 155mm Howitzer, my tolerance is only given as long as he has safe storage for his rounds. And, I would define "safe storage" as something that would confine any accidental detonations to his property. Therefore, I do support some form of gun control. That's pretty much where I start drawing lines, but it is a form of control, is it not? What’s the problem with Libourel’s having an opinion on the proper urban self-defense weapon? Personally, I don’t do Glocks or mouse guns, but if someone else wants to?

And as far as the statement that “Only a madman would oppose all gun control.”, color me sane, then. I’ve noted on several occasions that, while I would have no problem with my neighbor having a 155mm Howitzer, my tolerance is only given as long as he has safe storage for his rounds. And, I would define “safe storage” as something that would confine any accidental detonations to his property.

Therefore, I do support some form of gun control. That’s pretty much where I start drawing lines, but it is a form of control, is it not?

]]> By: Dave http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45959 Dave Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:08:19 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45959 Thirty five yards would be well off my property, so I don't expect that situation to come up, at least until Lord Humongus and his biker pals show up to steal my supplies. Thirty five yards would be well off my property, so I don’t expect that situation to come up, at least until Lord Humongus and his biker pals show up to steal my supplies.

]]> By: Caleb http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45954 Caleb Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:17:00 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45954 The bit about "35 yards" is interesting - in self defense cases, the burden of proof is often on the person defending their life to demonstrate that a "reasonable person" would have felt in danger. I have always thought that it would be kind of difficult to explain to a jury why I felt as though I was "imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm" from a guy 35 yards away. The bit about “35 yards” is interesting – in self defense cases, the burden of proof is often on the person defending their life to demonstrate that a “reasonable person” would have felt in danger. I have always thought that it would be kind of difficult to explain to a jury why I felt as though I was “imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm” from a guy 35 yards away.

]]> By: workinwifdakids http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/07/10/i-think-the-man-is-itching-to-see-a-zumboing/#comment-45947 workinwifdakids Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:32:07 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=11603#comment-45947 If this nut thinks we're all going to get frothy over the 2,000th iteration of "what would you carry after Katrina?", then he has another thing coming. If this nut thinks we’re all going to get frothy over the 2,000th iteration of “what would you carry after Katrina?”, then he has another thing coming.

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