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	<title>Comments on: What Happened To Techno-Libertarianism?</title>
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	<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/</link>
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		<title>By: Clayton E. Cramer</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37746</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton E. Cramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37746</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s still quite a bit of conservative and libertarian sentiment among techies--but remember that the rich ones are overwhelmingly hard left.  I worked with a bunch of people who are now billionaires and multimillionaires, and many of them were hard left when they were still midddle class.  Hard left attitudes about how there is nothing right or wrong, just what you can get away with, are powerful advantages to becoming obscenely rich.  

In addition, part of what makes people go progressive is a profound contempt and hatred for traditional values, especially anything that smacks of Christianity--and even techies that I worked with who were libertarian when they didn&#039;t own their fleets of jets, seem to have moved left out of hatred for anything that seems even slightly traditional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s still quite a bit of conservative and libertarian sentiment among techies&#8211;but remember that the rich ones are overwhelmingly hard left.  I worked with a bunch of people who are now billionaires and multimillionaires, and many of them were hard left when they were still midddle class.  Hard left attitudes about how there is nothing right or wrong, just what you can get away with, are powerful advantages to becoming obscenely rich.  </p>
<p>In addition, part of what makes people go progressive is a profound contempt and hatred for traditional values, especially anything that smacks of Christianity&#8211;and even techies that I worked with who were libertarian when they didn&#8217;t own their fleets of jets, seem to have moved left out of hatred for anything that seems even slightly traditional.</p>
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		<title>By: Zendo Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37708</link>
		<dc:creator>Zendo Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37708</guid>
		<description>Also, from a not-so-young techie... the reward for doing a good job was to see that job sent overseas.

That and working for management that was straight out of a Dilbert cartoon convinced me to leave tech. Human factors? We have the web! Response time? Isn&#039;t the web fast? Redundancy? Security? Mean-time-repair? but we have the Web!

And all those old-school techno-weenies (propeller heads, bit twidlers, whatever) were awful hard to work with if you weren&#039;t an old-school white male.  Been there, done that.

Consulting you say? Yeah, that&#039;s right. I spent the last part of my career cleaning up the messes left by the consulting arms of the Big 6 accounting firms.

Never installed SAP. But I did work on several other ERP and CRM applications.  Not very rewarding.  And they didn&#039;t work very well when all was said and done.

The current state of corporate information services doesn&#039;t lend itself to free-thinking. Unless you are working for a cutting edge org doing data mining, or something like that, you pretty much an adjunct to accounting or cost accounting in a manufacturing environment.  And until just recently, you could make more money in accounting (by moving eventually to finance).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, from a not-so-young techie&#8230; the reward for doing a good job was to see that job sent overseas.</p>
<p>That and working for management that was straight out of a Dilbert cartoon convinced me to leave tech. Human factors? We have the web! Response time? Isn&#8217;t the web fast? Redundancy? Security? Mean-time-repair? but we have the Web!</p>
<p>And all those old-school techno-weenies (propeller heads, bit twidlers, whatever) were awful hard to work with if you weren&#8217;t an old-school white male.  Been there, done that.</p>
<p>Consulting you say? Yeah, that&#8217;s right. I spent the last part of my career cleaning up the messes left by the consulting arms of the Big 6 accounting firms.</p>
<p>Never installed SAP. But I did work on several other ERP and CRM applications.  Not very rewarding.  And they didn&#8217;t work very well when all was said and done.</p>
<p>The current state of corporate information services doesn&#8217;t lend itself to free-thinking. Unless you are working for a cutting edge org doing data mining, or something like that, you pretty much an adjunct to accounting or cost accounting in a manufacturing environment.  And until just recently, you could make more money in accounting (by moving eventually to finance).</p>
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		<title>By: Zendo Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37706</link>
		<dc:creator>Zendo Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 19:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37706</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t all that hard to figure out...

The younger generation hates the Republican Party, more than they love the Dems&#039; socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t all that hard to figure out&#8230;</p>
<p>The younger generation hates the Republican Party, more than they love the Dems&#8217; socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomare Utsu Zo</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37677</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomare Utsu Zo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37677</guid>
		<description>Hate to give the old guy credit, but, Marx was right about the history of class struggle. Those who are agitating for change and freedom will upon achieving success realize that they now have a stake in keeping those who haven&#039;t achieved success down or risk losing to others. *hmmm* The left wing version of growing up and becoming conservative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to give the old guy credit, but, Marx was right about the history of class struggle. Those who are agitating for change and freedom will upon achieving success realize that they now have a stake in keeping those who haven&#8217;t achieved success down or risk losing to others. *hmmm* The left wing version of growing up and becoming conservative?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim W</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37643</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 04:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37643</guid>
		<description>About 10 years ago, tech became an easy choice for making money. People began going to school for it. 

The tech industry 10 years ago was full of people that were doing tech because they enjoyed it. Then the industry matured- the jobs switched from being inventive jobs to being assembly line and maintenance level jobs. 

Also, the companies that survived being startups eventually became bloated mega-corps. A startup is a gamble with a small chance of a big payoff, but a successful one eventually ends up becoming more and more cautious- they have deeper pockets and more to lose if they screw up. The culture within these companies shifts and creative people find they are less and less welcome. They leave. 

I already left the tech industry a couple of years ago. I&#039;m going into patent law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About 10 years ago, tech became an easy choice for making money. People began going to school for it. </p>
<p>The tech industry 10 years ago was full of people that were doing tech because they enjoyed it. Then the industry matured- the jobs switched from being inventive jobs to being assembly line and maintenance level jobs. </p>
<p>Also, the companies that survived being startups eventually became bloated mega-corps. A startup is a gamble with a small chance of a big payoff, but a successful one eventually ends up becoming more and more cautious- they have deeper pockets and more to lose if they screw up. The culture within these companies shifts and creative people find they are less and less welcome. They leave. </p>
<p>I already left the tech industry a couple of years ago. I&#8217;m going into patent law.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37640</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 03:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37640</guid>
		<description>open source, I see it as innovation.  I&#039;ve grabbed a few programs, why, because they&#039;re always getting better.  

It&#039;s quite libertarian, I make something that does what I need it to do, release it.  Now someone else comes along and adds to it.  I grab that version and I&#039;ve now got something better from my initial investment, just as that person I gave it to did.  Of course you have the monetary side as well, that allows others to make books and videos and all the other crap that goes along with software and learning how to use it.  The only people being &quot;hurt&quot; are those who stagnate and demand insane amounts of money for what essentially comes down to a status symbol and support of all the parasites that you&#039;re complaining about.  

Another things on OS, It reduces piracy as folks move to it and reduces government power to meddle in yet another area of your life.  How can THAT be a bad thing?

And just one last thing on it.  I can see it, I can change it.  Can you show me one single commercial software program that allows for that under the terms of their licensing agreement?  You don&#039;t OWN any commercial software, you&#039;re just permitted to use it until they say otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>open source, I see it as innovation.  I&#8217;ve grabbed a few programs, why, because they&#8217;re always getting better.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite libertarian, I make something that does what I need it to do, release it.  Now someone else comes along and adds to it.  I grab that version and I&#8217;ve now got something better from my initial investment, just as that person I gave it to did.  Of course you have the monetary side as well, that allows others to make books and videos and all the other crap that goes along with software and learning how to use it.  The only people being &#8220;hurt&#8221; are those who stagnate and demand insane amounts of money for what essentially comes down to a status symbol and support of all the parasites that you&#8217;re complaining about.  </p>
<p>Another things on OS, It reduces piracy as folks move to it and reduces government power to meddle in yet another area of your life.  How can THAT be a bad thing?</p>
<p>And just one last thing on it.  I can see it, I can change it.  Can you show me one single commercial software program that allows for that under the terms of their licensing agreement?  You don&#8217;t OWN any commercial software, you&#8217;re just permitted to use it until they say otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Linoge</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37609</link>
		<dc:creator>Linoge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 21:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37609</guid>
		<description>The short (if somewhat impertinent) answer:  They got old.  

The longer answer:  It stopped being the heady days of the dot-com bubble, and started being more about what you can keep/protect/defend/exploit.  The mad rush is more or less over, now it is just territory-defense maneuvers, and that inherently favors the establishment given that the establishment gives those maneuvers credibility, if not outright support.  It stopped being about making those new breakthroughs, and started being about how much money you can generate off them.  

But that is just me... a part-time, unprofessional nerd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short (if somewhat impertinent) answer:  They got old.  </p>
<p>The longer answer:  It stopped being the heady days of the dot-com bubble, and started being more about what you can keep/protect/defend/exploit.  The mad rush is more or less over, now it is just territory-defense maneuvers, and that inherently favors the establishment given that the establishment gives those maneuvers credibility, if not outright support.  It stopped being about making those new breakthroughs, and started being about how much money you can generate off them.  </p>
<p>But that is just me&#8230; a part-time, unprofessional nerd.</p>
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		<title>By: Phelps</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37590</link>
		<dc:creator>Phelps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37590</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s simple.  The libertarians ran tech when tech was the frontier. Tech isn&#039;t the frontier anymore.  When a new space opens up, libertarians will be the first ones there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s simple.  The libertarians ran tech when tech was the frontier. Tech isn&#8217;t the frontier anymore.  When a new space opens up, libertarians will be the first ones there.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbit</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37589</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37589</guid>
		<description>I dunno, there are several of us at Big Blue (still, despite the layoff rumors) who wear the Hairshirt of Heinlein. Within my group, we&#039;ve been diligently passing around copies of L. Neil Smith, Heinlein, John Ringo and John Scalzi books. Most of us have copies of the Fairtax book and Ayn Rand visibly displayed on our desks. 

As for me, I&#039;m proud to say I learned Bell Labs Unix on a PDP-7. I don&#039;t personally find anything inherently socialist in OSF/OSI/OSS, as much as I find it egalitarian (if not ego-driven) and Free is Not Bad. However, I do support our premium OS product for money and do so, proudly.  Our sole liberal on the team (and, I add, the oldest member of the team) keeps quiet but does keep a picture of himself and Hillary on his desk, though.

Regards,
Rabbit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, there are several of us at Big Blue (still, despite the layoff rumors) who wear the Hairshirt of Heinlein. Within my group, we&#8217;ve been diligently passing around copies of L. Neil Smith, Heinlein, John Ringo and John Scalzi books. Most of us have copies of the Fairtax book and Ayn Rand visibly displayed on our desks. </p>
<p>As for me, I&#8217;m proud to say I learned Bell Labs Unix on a PDP-7. I don&#8217;t personally find anything inherently socialist in OSF/OSI/OSS, as much as I find it egalitarian (if not ego-driven) and Free is Not Bad. However, I do support our premium OS product for money and do so, proudly.  Our sole liberal on the team (and, I add, the oldest member of the team) keeps quiet but does keep a picture of himself and Hillary on his desk, though.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Rabbit.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2009/01/30/what-happened-to-techno-libertarianism/#comment-37588</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=8057#comment-37588</guid>
		<description>I think Microsoft&#039;s experience with the justice department and Mr Hatch, showed the dangers of assuming that you can get by with writing software and running your business without currying government favor at the same time. The younger people seem not to have as much libertarian mindset, the older people are battle scared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Microsoft&#8217;s experience with the justice department and Mr Hatch, showed the dangers of assuming that you can get by with writing software and running your business without currying government favor at the same time. The younger people seem not to have as much libertarian mindset, the older people are battle scared.</p>
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