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National Park Carry: We Win!

The NRA is announcing that the final rule for National Park Carry has been approved, and will be published in the federal register.  This is a nice win for us, but it might be the last piece of good news we see on this front for a while.  The Obama Administration can undo this with an executive order, or [turns out you can’t undo a rule with an EO] through further rule making.

But even if this gets reversed, it feels good to take a poop in the punch bowl of the incoming administration.  The Bradys will want to get rid of this rule, and we will want to keep it.  Obama risks pissing off the approximately 2-3 million people who have a concealed carry permits in this country if he reverses this.  A lot of CCP holders are not hard core political junkies.  I work with two other people who have them, neither of whom are that involved.  I even know a few liberal Obama voting Dems who have LTCs!  This is a tough issue for the new administration.

UPDATE: Final rule is here.

UPDATE: Reading over the rule, it looks like open carry is still out of the question.  The rule doesn’t appear to make a distinction between rifles, shotguns and pistols, but it mandates concealed.  So my guess is that a rifle in a vehicle would be fine, if it’s legal under state law.  In Pennsylvania, and most states, it’s unlawful to have a loaded long gun in a vehicle, license or no.  Of course, under PA law, an SBR or SBS is not a long gun, and is legal to keep loaded in a vehicle.

UPDATE: Someone points out that buildings are still of limits for concealed carry.  The reason for this is that regulation of firearms in federal buildings is outside the rulemaking authority of The Department of Interior.  Those are found in 18 U.S.C. 930, and it would take an Act of Congress to change the law in that matter.  The National Park Serivce has done what it can under its authority.  If you want to carry in federal buildings on National Park property, you’ll have to take that up with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (and soon, Obama).

20 Responses to “National Park Carry: We Win!”

  1. Just wondering where do you get your 2-3 million number from? I know Florida along has over 600k alone. PA has even more, as you’ve said before. I’d assume states like VA are up there as well. I know those examples that have higher numbers, but with 48 states having some provision for LTCs, it would seem like your estimate is low. Has anyone tried to work up an accurate estimate?

  2. Sebastian says:

    I’ve seen that before. I was actually looking for the source, but I don’t have time really to fine it. If you can find it, I’ll make a link.

  3. I’ve looked for it, but I’ve never seen anything other than wild guesses. A lot of states publish statistics (or at least #s of licenses) but I’ve never actually seen it condensed into one place. Perhaps that will be a good project for me when I have some time.

  4. RKM says:

    Many of the western states allow carry without a permit when going/doing/returning from fishing, hunting or shooting at a formal range. Their laws do not specify concealed or open carry. It might make for interesting times.

  5. Most states? I never heard of a loaded long gun in a car being illegal until you happened to mention it here. It would never have occurred to me to find out if it was illegal here, or anywhere else.

  6. Sebastian says:

    I’ve heard of people getting in trouble for it in other states, though in other states it’s considered a game regulation. At least that’s my understanding.

  7. Mike w. says:

    Yup. Delaware has a law prohibiting loaded long guns in a vehicle and IIRC it’s listed under some hunting statute.

  8. Countertop says:

    Why do you say this can be undone with an executive order?
    I haven’t seen the actual language, but is it a rule or executive order? If its a rule, it takes another round of rulemaking to undo.

    Which is possible, but doubtful.

  9. If it’s illegal in Indiana, nobody knows it (not, mind, that it’s particularly intelligent to drive around with a loaded .30-06 in your gun rack).

  10. Sebastian says:

    It’s a rule, but I thought EOs could change rules?

  11. Carl in Chicago says:

    According to the information complied at “Handgunlaw dot us”, the following states “allow” for carry (licensed or otherwise) in state parks:

    AK, AZ, AR, CO, DE, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MO, MT, NV, NH, NJ, NY, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WY

    And this can’t be undone with a mere executive order. Obama’s new admin would have to formally file to change the rules again (and at the cost of much political capital).

  12. Oscar says:

    Did y’all read the linked .pdf?

    Page 6:

    “….This rule does not authorize visitors to use firearms, or to otherwise possess or carry concealed firearms in federal facilities in national parks and wildlife refuges as such possession is proscribed by 18 USC 930.”

    So, you can’t carry into a museum or gift shop located at a national park? What if you gotta go to the can while visiting the Grand Canyon? Man, oh, man: leave your gun in your car, or whiz in your pants…

    Page 8: They mention Sens. Webb (VA) and Murkowki (AK), as well as Gov. Palin, wrote in our favor. I didn’t think I could be a stronger supporter of Gov. Palin, but she can count on my support, time, and money if she decides to run in 2012.

  13. Sebastian says:

    Oscar, I did. Let me address that in the update.

  14. Sebastian says:

    Post is updated. I actually meant to address that, but forgot.

  15. Carl in Chicago says:

    It would be useful for all of us to think of this rule change, and so communicate it, not as the “allowance” of carry in parks, but a repeal on the prohibition thereof.

  16. J. Dock says:

    This is good news, and very welcome. Thank you Sebastian.

  17. People opposing this new rule will try to argue that national parks are safe without guns.

    Yet Nevada Barr, a popular park ranger/mystery novelist writes about crime in the parks all the time.

    http://natureblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/new-self-defense-rules-for-national.html

  18. Clint says:

    So, does this take effect immediately? I didn’t see an date in the report.

  19. Carl in Chicago says:

    Clint:

    The new rule is to be published in the federal register by next week, and will take effect 30 days following that. So if that date is Friday, 12 December, this rule change would go into effect on Friday, 9 January 2009.

  20. Sebastian says:

    I had heard that it goes into effect as soon as it’s published in the Federal Register.

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