Comments on: Quote of the Day http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/ The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:34:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33113 Sebastian Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:11:00 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33113 I should note that the Achilles heel of this argument means that the state would appear to be free to dictate that couples of different races or religions should be unable to marry, equal protection under the law be damned. I actually think in the case of mixed race couples, you have a pretty powerful equal protection argument, since our legal tradition accepts discrimination between the sexes, to a large degree. In marriage, I don't think the question is whether it's a right. I do think for religious purposes, you have a right to marry, but there is no right to have that recognized by the state. Recognized marriage is a privilege, I think pretty clearly. But to what extent does that obligate the state to not discriminate on the basis or race, or, say relation? Are there freedom of religion issues if the state chooses to recognize, say, catholic marriages but not protestant ones? It's a very complex issue, and I don't think there's a good answer, but I think in situations like that, judges shouldn't pretend to have any particular moral insight, and should defer to the legislature. I should note that the Achilles heel of this argument means that the state would appear to be free to dictate that couples of different races or religions should be unable to marry, equal protection under the law be damned. I actually think in the case of mixed race couples, you have a pretty powerful equal protection argument, since our legal tradition accepts discrimination between the sexes, to a large degree.

In marriage, I don’t think the question is whether it’s a right. I do think for religious purposes, you have a right to marry, but there is no right to have that recognized by the state. Recognized marriage is a privilege, I think pretty clearly. But to what extent does that obligate the state to not discriminate on the basis or race, or, say relation? Are there freedom of religion issues if the state chooses to recognize, say, catholic marriages but not protestant ones?

It’s a very complex issue, and I don’t think there’s a good answer, but I think in situations like that, judges shouldn’t pretend to have any particular moral insight, and should defer to the legislature.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33112 Sebastian Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:02:29 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33112 Stormy: If anyone has a right to marry whomever one wants, then there's no legal basis for prohibiting polygamy, marriage between siblings, or any number of marital arrangements that are unacceptable to very large numbers of people. To some degree, this a hazard of the state being in the business of recognizing marriage, but I think in this instance you have to go with the common law understanding of marriage unless the legislature dictates otherwise. In common law, marriage is between a man and a woman. Regardless of what I think the legislature should do, and I think they should confer the benefits of marriage on same sex couples, I think the judiciary needs to be very wary of overturning centuries of common law for the political cause du jour. Stormy:

If anyone has a right to marry whomever one wants, then there’s no legal basis for prohibiting polygamy, marriage between siblings, or any number of marital arrangements that are unacceptable to very large numbers of people. To some degree, this a hazard of the state being in the business of recognizing marriage, but I think in this instance you have to go with the common law understanding of marriage unless the legislature dictates otherwise. In common law, marriage is between a man and a woman. Regardless of what I think the legislature should do, and I think they should confer the benefits of marriage on same sex couples, I think the judiciary needs to be very wary of overturning centuries of common law for the political cause du jour.

]]> By: Clint http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33111 Clint Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:45:07 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33111 "So you think Heller was wrongly decided, since the Supreme Court didn’t decide to wait until DC was ready to have a debate on the right to keep and bear arms?" Note that the ban was in 1976 and Heller was in 2008. We DID wait. "When your rights are being infringed, you should not have to wait until other people are ‘ready’ to recognize them." It's not right, it's not fair, but it is the way life works. Read the Amendments after the Bill of Rights, especially #14 and #19. BTW; you just proved Sebastian's point.... “So you think Heller was wrongly decided, since the Supreme Court didn’t decide to wait until DC was ready to have a debate on the right to keep and bear arms?”

Note that the ban was in 1976 and Heller was in 2008. We DID wait.

“When your rights are being infringed, you should not have to wait until other people are ‘ready’ to recognize them.”

It’s not right, it’s not fair, but it is the way life works. Read the Amendments after the Bill of Rights, especially #14 and #19.

BTW; you just proved Sebastian’s point….

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33109 Sebastian Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:12:59 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33109 I don't agree with forcing abortions on catholic hospitals. I don’t agree with forcing abortions on catholic hospitals.

]]> By: emdfl http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33108 emdfl Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:10:32 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33108 Actually you are talking about forcing it on churches, just not real loudly yet. cf. abortion demands in catholic run hospitals; adoption demands against catholic run adoption agencies. Actually you are talking about forcing it on churches, just not real loudly yet. cf. abortion demands in catholic run hospitals; adoption demands against catholic run adoption agencies.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33101 Sebastian Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:01:05 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33101 I agree that it's worth protecting, I just don't agree that letting gays enjoy the legal benefits of marriage really threatens marriage at all. We're not talking about forcing it on churches. I agree that it’s worth protecting, I just don’t agree that letting gays enjoy the legal benefits of marriage really threatens marriage at all. We’re not talking about forcing it on churches.

]]> By: Capt Platinum http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33099 Capt Platinum Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:49:16 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33099 Marriage is an institution many centuries old, and worth protecting as the foundation of our society. Gays started out saying to stay out of their bedroom, and what they did in privacy was their own business. Now that Sodomy is no longer illegal, they want to shape our culture into their liking. Keep it in your bedroom. Marriage is an institution many centuries old, and worth protecting as the foundation of our society. Gays started out saying to stay out of their bedroom, and what they did in privacy was their own business. Now that Sodomy is no longer illegal, they want to shape our culture into their liking. Keep it in your bedroom.

]]> By: Laughingdog http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33096 Laughingdog Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:47:46 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33096 "his is backlash for the defeat of Proposition 8 in California," Defeat? I think you meant "passage of Proposition 8". “his is backlash for the defeat of Proposition 8 in California,”

Defeat? I think you meant “passage of Proposition 8″.

]]> By: TexasFred http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33093 TexasFred Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:40:17 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33093 It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks. ******************************* I'm pretty sure that the Klan guys aren't *bone smokers* too, that would be a HUGE difference... It was like being at a klan rally except the klansmen were wearing Abercrombie polos and Birkenstocks.
*******************************
I’m pretty sure that the Klan guys aren’t *bone smokers* too, that would be a HUGE difference…

]]> By: Stormy Dragon http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/11/08/quote-of-the-day-89/#comment-33092 Stormy Dragon Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:29:44 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=6428#comment-33092 >I am not threatened by or opposed to the state recognizing >marriage between same sex couples, but I think it needs to >be accomplished legislatively, You mean like when the California state legislature voted on two seperate occasions to legalize gay marriage? >when society is prepared to have that debate. Right now >they are not. So you think Heller was wrongly decided, since the Supreme Court didn't decide to wait until DC was ready to have a debate on the right to keep and bear arms? When your rights are being infringed, you should not have to wait until other people are 'ready' to recognize them. >I am not threatened by or opposed to the state recognizing
>marriage between same sex couples, but I think it needs to
>be accomplished legislatively,

You mean like when the California state legislature voted on two seperate occasions to legalize gay marriage?

>when society is prepared to have that debate. Right now
>they are not.

So you think Heller was wrongly decided, since the Supreme Court didn’t decide to wait until DC was ready to have a debate on the right to keep and bear arms?

When your rights are being infringed, you should not have to wait until other people are ‘ready’ to recognize them.

]]>