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	<title>Comments on: How Far is Too Far?</title>
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	<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/</link>
	<description>The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ...</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27269</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 03:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27269</guid>
		<description>If national registration and/or licensing is passed, then I will become a criminal.  I&#039;ve said so before in several places.  I will not register - period.  

One of the reasons it took me so long to get a CCW is getting over the idea that I had to get governmental &lt;i&gt;permission&lt;/i&gt; to carry concealed, but I&#039;ve read the case law going all the way back to just after ratification of the Bill of Rights, and if I&#039;m going to be consistent, I have to acknowledge that even back then there was a general consensus that open carry was lawful, and concealed carry wasn&#039;t and could be regulated.  OK, fine.

But &lt;i&gt;not &lt;b&gt;registration&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.  That&#039;s my line in the sand.  And if they come to &lt;i&gt;confiscate&lt;/i&gt; my firearms because I haven&#039;t obeyed their unconstitutional law, then yes, that will be sufficient cause to open fire.

And I&#039;ll die like Carl Drega or Marvin Heemeyer, to no greater effect than they had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If national registration and/or licensing is passed, then I will become a criminal.  I&#8217;ve said so before in several places.  I will not register &#8211; period.  </p>
<p>One of the reasons it took me so long to get a CCW is getting over the idea that I had to get governmental <i>permission</i> to carry concealed, but I&#8217;ve read the case law going all the way back to just after ratification of the Bill of Rights, and if I&#8217;m going to be consistent, I have to acknowledge that even back then there was a general consensus that open carry was lawful, and concealed carry wasn&#8217;t and could be regulated.  OK, fine.</p>
<p>But <i>not <b>registration</b></i>.  That&#8217;s my line in the sand.  And if they come to <i>confiscate</i> my firearms because I haven&#8217;t obeyed their unconstitutional law, then yes, that will be sufficient cause to open fire.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;ll die like Carl Drega or Marvin Heemeyer, to no greater effect than they had.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27242</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27242</guid>
		<description>I posted the original letter to the editor, which proposed a scheme of national licensing and registration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted the original letter to the editor, which proposed a scheme of national licensing and registration.</p>
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		<title>By: oldblinddog</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27241</link>
		<dc:creator>oldblinddog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27241</guid>
		<description>It isn&#039;t registration that is at issue (maybe it&#039;s just me but I thought the original arguement made by Mike V was over confiscation). If they come to take them because they have passed a federal ban...

Just remember that the first battle of the revolution was over an attempt at confiscation.

Just sayin&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t registration that is at issue (maybe it&#8217;s just me but I thought the original arguement made by Mike V was over confiscation). If they come to take them because they have passed a federal ban&#8230;</p>
<p>Just remember that the first battle of the revolution was over an attempt at confiscation.</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27238</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27238</guid>
		<description>If you live in California, you might be an excellent candidate for challenging the state&#039;s assault weapons ban :)  That&#039;s not just a good argument, it&#039;s a good argument to use in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you live in California, you might be an excellent candidate for challenging the state&#8217;s assault weapons ban :)  That&#8217;s not just a good argument, it&#8217;s a good argument to use in court.</p>
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		<title>By: tkdkerry</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27237</link>
		<dc:creator>tkdkerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27237</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Are you really that badly downgraded with an M1 Garand, or a Mini-14 ranch rifle than an AR-15? &lt;/i&gt;

Well, yes.  For now I can handle an M1 or Mini-14, but the pistol-grip AR, AK, FAL etc makes it much easier to hold and control with the arthritis in my hands and wrists.  When my arthritis gets too bad, shouldn&#039;t I be allowed to have a weapon I can use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are you really that badly downgraded with an M1 Garand, or a Mini-14 ranch rifle than an AR-15? </i></p>
<p>Well, yes.  For now I can handle an M1 or Mini-14, but the pistol-grip AR, AK, FAL etc makes it much easier to hold and control with the arthritis in my hands and wrists.  When my arthritis gets too bad, shouldn&#8217;t I be allowed to have a weapon I can use?</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27236</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27236</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re absolutely right about that.  The problem is a lot of people are leaving the state because of qualify of life issues that are &lt;i&gt;caused&lt;/i&gt; or at the very least exacerbated by governmental regulation, taxation, and nanny statism.  People get fed up with the package and leave, but they take their attitudes that elected the government that made their lives miserable to other states.  They don&#039;t really make the connection that &quot;Gee... the reason my last state had such a high cost of living is because I voted for a government that made policies that made things that way.&quot;

&lt;i&gt;But someone answer me this: If an uninvited armed individual were to attempt entry to your residence, would you let them? Why does it differ if that individual is wearing a uniform and / or employed by the government?&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s a decision people need to make for themselves.  I wouldn&#039;t presume to tell people what to do in that situation.  For myself, if I can readily identify them as police, I won&#039;t shoot, but I&#039;ll demand to see the warrant.  If I can&#039;t identify them as police, we&#039;re going to have a problem.  But, you know, I&#039;m a rather heavy sleeper.  If the entry team were good I&#039;d probably wake to six guys poking me with their AR-15s telling me to get the hell up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re absolutely right about that.  The problem is a lot of people are leaving the state because of qualify of life issues that are <i>caused</i> or at the very least exacerbated by governmental regulation, taxation, and nanny statism.  People get fed up with the package and leave, but they take their attitudes that elected the government that made their lives miserable to other states.  They don&#8217;t really make the connection that &#8220;Gee&#8230; the reason my last state had such a high cost of living is because I voted for a government that made policies that made things that way.&#8221;</p>
<p><i>But someone answer me this: If an uninvited armed individual were to attempt entry to your residence, would you let them? Why does it differ if that individual is wearing a uniform and / or employed by the government?</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a decision people need to make for themselves.  I wouldn&#8217;t presume to tell people what to do in that situation.  For myself, if I can readily identify them as police, I won&#8217;t shoot, but I&#8217;ll demand to see the warrant.  If I can&#8217;t identify them as police, we&#8217;re going to have a problem.  But, you know, I&#8217;m a rather heavy sleeper.  If the entry team were good I&#8217;d probably wake to six guys poking me with their AR-15s telling me to get the hell up.</p>
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		<title>By: Skullz</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27235</link>
		<dc:creator>Skullz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 15:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27235</guid>
		<description>Sebastian,

My disagreement with laws, registration, etc. is that may of them turn law abiding citizens into criminals. Look at NJ&#039;s recently passed .50 ban. All the previously legal hunters or collectors are instantly criminals if the fail to dispose of their lawfully purchased, owned, and utilized firearms.

If I cross the Delaware, and a stray hollow point is found (assuming I&#039;d submit to a search -NOT) is found rolling around my range bag - instant felon. If I&#039;m traveling to NH for an event and I stop for coffee in NJ or NY - instant felon. Especially if I have a &quot;high cap&quot; mag for whatever I&#039;m transporting.

You made a point of people leaving NJ in droves. True, but thats not about rights and freedoms, it&#039;s about cost of living. And if you follow the local political scenes and newspaper interviews, these NJ flights are slowly turning PA in to NJ, Look at the intrusion into privately owned businesses no longer able to make a decision if they want to allow smoking or not. Where do you think that started? Why do you think that it might end with a smoking ban?

In reference to roadblocks, yes I think they are unconstitutional and a bad idea, but driving on public roads is a privilege.

As said in an earlier post; do I think it&#039;s time to start shooting it out? No. But someone answer me this: If an uninvited armed individual were to attempt entry to your residence, would you let them? Why does it differ if that individual is wearing a uniform and / or employed by the government?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sebastian,</p>
<p>My disagreement with laws, registration, etc. is that may of them turn law abiding citizens into criminals. Look at NJ&#8217;s recently passed .50 ban. All the previously legal hunters or collectors are instantly criminals if the fail to dispose of their lawfully purchased, owned, and utilized firearms.</p>
<p>If I cross the Delaware, and a stray hollow point is found (assuming I&#8217;d submit to a search -NOT) is found rolling around my range bag &#8211; instant felon. If I&#8217;m traveling to NH for an event and I stop for coffee in NJ or NY &#8211; instant felon. Especially if I have a &#8220;high cap&#8221; mag for whatever I&#8217;m transporting.</p>
<p>You made a point of people leaving NJ in droves. True, but thats not about rights and freedoms, it&#8217;s about cost of living. And if you follow the local political scenes and newspaper interviews, these NJ flights are slowly turning PA in to NJ, Look at the intrusion into privately owned businesses no longer able to make a decision if they want to allow smoking or not. Where do you think that started? Why do you think that it might end with a smoking ban?</p>
<p>In reference to roadblocks, yes I think they are unconstitutional and a bad idea, but driving on public roads is a privilege.</p>
<p>As said in an earlier post; do I think it&#8217;s time to start shooting it out? No. But someone answer me this: If an uninvited armed individual were to attempt entry to your residence, would you let them? Why does it differ if that individual is wearing a uniform and / or employed by the government?</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27234</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 14:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27234</guid>
		<description>We put up with a lot of infringements on the first and fourth amendments.  The Supreme Court has ruled that the police may set up roadblocks to check for compliance with a provision of criminal law.  How is &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; not getting dangerously close to 1930s Germany?  They also allow for citizens to be poked, prodded, and damn near short of a strip search (which might be coming) to be able to board and airplane and exercise their fundamental right to travel.

As for the first amendment, our government says it&#039;s against the law to broadcast material about a candidate for federal office 60 days before an election.  That&#039;s cutting to the very heart of what the second amendment is meant to protect!  I think McCain-Feingold destroys the first amendment far more than California&#039;s assault weapons ban destroys the second.  The fundamental nut of the first amendment is that people have the right to criticize the government, and criticize those in power, so that we may discuss the merits of their continuing to occupy their seat at government.  Once the government begins to shut down avenues of criticism of themselves, they are chipping away at its core purpose.

Yet... no calls for revolution.  If McCain-Feingold were to come before The Court today, it would be tossed out.  O&#039;Conner was the 5th vote on that one, and she&#039;s gone.  I think we&#039;ll get rid of it.  It will just take time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We put up with a lot of infringements on the first and fourth amendments.  The Supreme Court has ruled that the police may set up roadblocks to check for compliance with a provision of criminal law.  How is <i>that</i> not getting dangerously close to 1930s Germany?  They also allow for citizens to be poked, prodded, and damn near short of a strip search (which might be coming) to be able to board and airplane and exercise their fundamental right to travel.</p>
<p>As for the first amendment, our government says it&#8217;s against the law to broadcast material about a candidate for federal office 60 days before an election.  That&#8217;s cutting to the very heart of what the second amendment is meant to protect!  I think McCain-Feingold destroys the first amendment far more than California&#8217;s assault weapons ban destroys the second.  The fundamental nut of the first amendment is that people have the right to criticize the government, and criticize those in power, so that we may discuss the merits of their continuing to occupy their seat at government.  Once the government begins to shut down avenues of criticism of themselves, they are chipping away at its core purpose.</p>
<p>Yet&#8230; no calls for revolution.  If McCain-Feingold were to come before The Court today, it would be tossed out.  O&#8217;Conner was the 5th vote on that one, and she&#8217;s gone.  I think we&#8217;ll get rid of it.  It will just take time.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27230</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27230</guid>
		<description>&quot;But how far is too far [for registration of arms]?  Has California gone too far?  Chicago?  DC?  New Jersey?  Would someone there be morally justified in shooting it out?&quot;

Too far?  Absolutely.  Justification for &quot;shooting it out&quot; over such registration?  Absolutely not.  Individuals shooting it out is NOT how to change Chicago, DC, NJ registration laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But how far is too far [for registration of arms]?  Has California gone too far?  Chicago?  DC?  New Jersey?  Would someone there be morally justified in shooting it out?&#8221;</p>
<p>Too far?  Absolutely.  Justification for &#8220;shooting it out&#8221; over such registration?  Absolutely not.  Individuals shooting it out is NOT how to change Chicago, DC, NJ registration laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/07/27/how-far-is-too-far/#comment-27229</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 13:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=4261#comment-27229</guid>
		<description>Your choice on the matter of registration was exceedingly narrow:

&quot;Registration is a sufficient transgression to warrant shooting.&quot;

If you had posed the question as follows, perhaps you&#039;d have gotten more than 11%:

&quot;Registration is a transgression sufficient to be opposed with all our political might.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your choice on the matter of registration was exceedingly narrow:</p>
<p>&#8220;Registration is a sufficient transgression to warrant shooting.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you had posed the question as follows, perhaps you&#8217;d have gotten more than 11%:</p>
<p>&#8220;Registration is a transgression sufficient to be opposed with all our political might.&#8221;</p>
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