Comments on: The Root of Reasoned DiscourseTM http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/ The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:20:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: charles kestner http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24622 charles kestner Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:01:55 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24622 Recently, I mailed out to my friends (gun owners and others, i.e. liberals) and laid it out for them on the Leading Causes of Death in the USA in the USA in 2005. (Latest year with full figures.) The bottom line was that of the 2.4M folks who died that year, 57% of them succumbing to heart disease, cancer, strokes and diabetes. Less than ONE per-cent died because of firearms (all variations - accidents, homocide, police and suicide). I then, not very tactfully, suggested that they could better invest their efforts and monies by educating the public on the dangers of cheeseburgers, tobacco, alcohol and candy. MUCH better bang (heh!) for the buck to attack the 57% rather than the 1%. Recently, I mailed out to my friends (gun owners and others, i.e. liberals) and laid it out for them on the Leading Causes of Death in the USA in the USA in 2005. (Latest year with full figures.)

The bottom line was that of the 2.4M folks who died that year, 57% of them succumbing to heart disease, cancer, strokes and diabetes.

Less than ONE per-cent died because of firearms (all variations – accidents, homocide, police and suicide).

I then, not very tactfully, suggested that they could better invest their efforts and monies by educating the public on the dangers of cheeseburgers, tobacco, alcohol and candy.

MUCH better bang (heh!) for the buck to attack the 57% rather than the 1%.

]]> By: Jacob http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24605 Jacob Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:57:25 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24605 Absolutely get involved in the selection and election processes. That’s the only way to be taken seriously. Absolutely get involved in the selection and election processes. That’s the only way to be taken seriously.

]]> By: RAH http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24604 RAH Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:39:51 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24604 Jacob, That bolsters Sebastian's argument that we need to be more active in local politics. To personally know our leglistors maybe have their numbers on our cell phones. Visit them at their offices, get on first name basis. Know the clerks who put things onn agendas. That type of stuff. Jacob,
That bolsters Sebastian’s argument that we need to be more active in local politics. To personally know our leglistors maybe have their numbers on our cell phones. Visit them at their offices, get on first name basis. Know the clerks who put things onn agendas. That type of stuff.

]]> By: Jacob http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24603 Jacob Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:32:44 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24603 RAH, let's just say I make it a point to know everything that's going on. RAH, let’s just say I make it a point to know everything that’s going on.

]]> By: Jacob http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24602 Jacob Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:30:47 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24602 The public doesn’t elect politicians, organized special interests do. They provide the money, manpower and votes. Go look through disclosure reports from the board of elections and you and can tell who is effectively running the show. Politics is dueling activists. There’s a lot few antis, but they are a lot better at what they do. That’s why you don’t have an MP5. Bob Ricker may just be one man, but he’s a hell of a lot better at what he does than you, Bitter, everyone on your blog roll and just about everybody who has ever read one of those blogs all put together. The public doesn’t elect politicians, organized special interests do. They provide the money, manpower and votes. Go look through disclosure reports from the board of elections and you and can tell who is effectively running the show.

Politics is dueling activists. There’s a lot few antis, but they are a lot better at what they do. That’s why you don’t have an MP5. Bob Ricker may just be one man, but he’s a hell of a lot better at what he does than you, Bitter, everyone on your blog roll and just about everybody who has ever read one of those blogs all put together.

]]> By: RAH http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24600 RAH Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:24:56 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24600 I agree with you because the anti tries to circumvent the normal debate process. How did you find out about the dog and pony show? That is a perfect example of pinpoint precision to get the right people to the right place and the right time. I agree with you because the anti tries to circumvent the normal debate process. How did you find out about the dog and pony show? That is a perfect example of pinpoint precision to get the right people to the right place and the right time.

]]> By: Jacob http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24599 Jacob Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:12:57 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24599 RAH, exactly four people were involved in Ball's sabotaging that microstamping dog and pony show: me, Ball, our NRA/NSSF rep. and his partner in the NSSF and I wasn’t even in NY at the time. After arriving in Louisville Thursday I sent out an e-mail alert about the demo which the NRA rep. got. The NRA rep. contacted me directly and forwarded the note onto his NSSF partner who just so happened to be at the Makers Mark pub that evening. Meanwhile, the NRA rep. contacted Ball who already knew what was going on because he’s also subscribed to our alert list. Monday rolls around and the three of them show up at the range and the antis hopes of bullshitting microstamping through the legislature went down the drain for the year. Public opinion? Will of the people? Hardly. RAH, exactly four people were involved in Ball’s sabotaging that microstamping dog and pony show: me, Ball, our NRA/NSSF rep. and his partner in the NSSF and I wasn’t even in NY at the time. After arriving in Louisville Thursday I sent out an e-mail alert about the demo which the NRA rep. got. The NRA rep. contacted me directly and forwarded the note onto his NSSF partner who just so happened to be at the Makers Mark pub that evening. Meanwhile, the NRA rep. contacted Ball who already knew what was going on because he’s also subscribed to our alert list. Monday rolls around and the three of them show up at the range and the antis hopes of bullshitting microstamping through the legislature went down the drain for the year. Public opinion? Will of the people? Hardly.

]]> By: RAH http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24598 RAH Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:01:39 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24598 I think the question should be is it better to get this in the states or federal. I think the states since that is where it affects the people directly. If we are good on the state level the federal will follow. Though having a Prsident who is not for gun control is very important too, since that sets a tone to possible federal legislation I think the question should be is it better to get this in the states or federal. I think the states since that is where it affects the people directly. If we are good on the state level the federal will follow. Though having a Prsident who is not for gun control is very important too, since that sets a tone to possible federal legislation

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24597 Sebastian Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:53:24 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24597 And on that note, the reason that LA Times article, and it turns out it also appeared in the Chicago Tribune, is so subversive is because it's appearing in a media market where people have almost no exposure to the idea that gun owners are anything other than police or criminals, and maybe actors for LA. The only other image they have of gun owners are ignorant rural people who drink beer while hunting, and then go home to hump their cousin. And on that note, the reason that LA Times article, and it turns out it also appeared in the Chicago Tribune, is so subversive is because it’s appearing in a media market where people have almost no exposure to the idea that gun owners are anything other than police or criminals, and maybe actors for LA. The only other image they have of gun owners are ignorant rural people who drink beer while hunting, and then go home to hump their cousin.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.pagunblog.com/2008/06/09/the-root-of-reasoned-discoursetm/#comment-24596 Sebastian Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:51:22 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=3705#comment-24596 So who is electing all the politicians who are voting for this stuff? If it were just a matter of dueling activists, I'd be able to own my own fully automatic MP5 by now. Public opinion does matter, because it's the public who puts politicians in office who vote for microstamping. It may not have been the people of New York pushing for it, but the gun control people found something that sounds like a great idea to an ignorant public and ignorant politicians who either know nothing of gun ownership, or look down on it. At the very least, it doesn't affect them, or anyone they know, so they will acquiesce. You can't completely ignore public opinion, because it's the wall that limits what you can accomplish. So who is electing all the politicians who are voting for this stuff? If it were just a matter of dueling activists, I’d be able to own my own fully automatic MP5 by now. Public opinion does matter, because it’s the public who puts politicians in office who vote for microstamping. It may not have been the people of New York pushing for it, but the gun control people found something that sounds like a great idea to an ignorant public and ignorant politicians who either know nothing of gun ownership, or look down on it. At the very least, it doesn’t affect them, or anyone they know, so they will acquiesce. You can’t completely ignore public opinion, because it’s the wall that limits what you can accomplish.

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