Comments on: New Jersey Votes to Abolish Death Penalty http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/ The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ... Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:18:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ian Argent http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-16029 Ian Argent Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:20:29 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-16029 "“Throw them in jail for life without parole. Has the same effect on recidivism” 1. No, it does not. Inmates murder other inmates. 2. Ignoring the above, this is fine, just so long as YOU foot the bill, and not ME." Inmate on inmate murder is a problem - just as any other inmate on inmate crime (I <i>loathe</i> that prison rape is considered effectively another part of a sentence, for example). But it happens with inmates who are not on Death Row; Death Row seems to be rather more secure, so the chances of that are rather HIGHER for a non-Death-Row inmate than for a regular inmate. So it's not any more or a problem with inmates otherwise scheduled to die. As for paying for it; someone up-thread mentions the huge number of "safeguards" that purport (with only moderate effectiveness) to prevent "undeserving" people from being executed. Right now it's <i>cheaper</i> to keep someone in jail for 50 years or more than it is to execute them, especially if the state ALSO has to fund their defense. Anyway, the marginal cost of keeping every one of the death row prisoners we have now in prison for life is negligible - most of the costs of a prison are "capital" costs - there aren't enough prisoners sentenced to death to appreciably add to the cost of operating the prison. If you're really worried about the cost of prison, the place to start is reducing the number of non-violent drug offenders. ““Throw them in jail for life without parole. Has the same effect on recidivism”

1. No, it does not. Inmates murder other inmates.

2. Ignoring the above, this is fine, just so long as YOU foot the bill, and not ME.”

Inmate on inmate murder is a problem – just as any other inmate on inmate crime (I loathe that prison rape is considered effectively another part of a sentence, for example). But it happens with inmates who are not on Death Row; Death Row seems to be rather more secure, so the chances of that are rather HIGHER for a non-Death-Row inmate than for a regular inmate. So it’s not any more or a problem with inmates otherwise scheduled to die.

As for paying for it; someone up-thread mentions the huge number of “safeguards” that purport (with only moderate effectiveness) to prevent “undeserving” people from being executed. Right now it’s cheaper to keep someone in jail for 50 years or more than it is to execute them, especially if the state ALSO has to fund their defense.

Anyway, the marginal cost of keeping every one of the death row prisoners we have now in prison for life is negligible – most of the costs of a prison are “capital” costs – there aren’t enough prisoners sentenced to death to appreciably add to the cost of operating the prison.

If you’re really worried about the cost of prison, the place to start is reducing the number of non-violent drug offenders.

]]> By: rightwingprof http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-16023 rightwingprof Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:53:27 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-16023 "Throw them in jail for life without parole. Has the same effect on recidivism" 1. No, it does not. Inmates murder other inmates. 2. Ignoring the above, this is fine, just so long as YOU foot the bill, and not ME. “Throw them in jail for life without parole. Has the same effect on recidivism”

1. No, it does not. Inmates murder other inmates.

2. Ignoring the above, this is fine, just so long as YOU foot the bill, and not ME.

]]> By: Ian Argent http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15994 Ian Argent Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:15:37 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15994 I won't go that far - just getting rid of no-knock should be enough. For those of you who support the death penalty - are you comfortable with say, Mr. Nifong having the power to direct the apparatus of government to kill someone... I won’t go that far – just getting rid of no-knock should be enough.

For those of you who support the death penalty – are you comfortable with say, Mr. Nifong having the power to direct the apparatus of government to kill someone…

]]> By: straightarrow http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15992 straightarrow Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:07:58 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15992 I would fully support a law that any law enforcement officer killed in the service of a no-knock warrant is just a cost of doing business with no criminal or civil penalties accruing. I would fully support a law that any law enforcement officer killed in the service of a no-knock warrant is just a cost of doing business with no criminal or civil penalties accruing.

]]> By: straightarrow http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15991 straightarrow Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:05:09 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15991 Thanks. Hard to stomach a man going to prison for protecting his baby from housebreakers. Thanks. Hard to stomach a man going to prison for protecting his baby from housebreakers.

]]> By: Ian Argent http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15976 Ian Argent Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:07:30 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15976 According to Mr. Balko - Mr. Maye has been formally resentanced to LWP - a necessary step so he can appeal his conviction, and the only other choice of sentence for Capital Murder in the state of Mississippi. This unfortunately means he's out of Death Row cells and into General Population... According to Mr. Balko – Mr. Maye has been formally resentanced to LWP – a necessary step so he can appeal his conviction, and the only other choice of sentence for Capital Murder in the state of Mississippi.

This unfortunately means he’s out of Death Row cells and into General Population…

]]> By: Ian Argent http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15975 Ian Argent Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:00:10 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15975 I've been following Corey Maye's case via Randy Balko's blog (The Agitator @ http://www.theagitator.com/ ) The last I saw there, the appeal on the sentencing phase had been successful (so he was off Death Row) but the original conviction still stands. http://www.theagitator.com/category/cory-maye/ should have more (and apparently I've been mis-spelling his first name!) I’ve been following Corey Maye’s case via Randy Balko’s blog (The Agitator @ http://www.theagitator.com/ )

The last I saw there, the appeal on the sentencing phase had been successful (so he was off Death Row) but the original conviction still stands.

http://www.theagitator.com/category/cory-maye/ should have more (and apparently I’ve been mis-spelling his first name!)

]]> By: New Jersey: Still Idiots http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15972 New Jersey: Still Idiots Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:26:44 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15972 [...] seems the morons running the Peoples’ Republik of New Jersey have decided to abolish the death penalty. I deduce that they figured they didn’t need one, as long as their criminals crossed into [...] [...] seems the morons running the Peoples’ Republik of New Jersey have decided to abolish the death penalty. I deduce that they figured they didn’t need one, as long as their criminals crossed into [...]

]]> By: rightwingprof http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15971 rightwingprof Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:21:25 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15971 No doubt the NJ Commisars decided they didn't need a death penalty as long as they could send criminals to Pennsylvania. No doubt the NJ Commisars decided they didn’t need a death penalty as long as they could send criminals to Pennsylvania.

]]> By: Yosemite Sam http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/12/10/new-jersey-votes-to-abolish-death-penalty/#comment-15960 Yosemite Sam Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:51:29 +0000 http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=2100#comment-15960 "Bleeding hearts who won’t sentence to LWP certainly won’t pass a harsher sentence…" True, but it does get to my point that a sentence of "Life Without Parole" would become diluted until killers are pardoned because of some sob story. The killer I mentioned was let out on parole even though he had attacked prison guards during his incarceration. If the system worked, this scumbag never would have been granted parole. Honestly, I agree with most of what you are saying. I am also uncomfortable with the State killing criminals and that act being a part of the political process. I just loathe that killers that commit heinous crimes are released and then prey again on innocent people. I guess if our political system was reformed to punish the guilty and to keep violent criminals locked up, I would fully support abolishing the death penalty. Unfortunately, a soft on criminals attitude seems to go hand in hand with the movement to end the death penalty. “Bleeding hearts who won’t sentence to LWP certainly won’t pass a harsher sentence…”

True, but it does get to my point that a sentence of “Life Without Parole” would become diluted until killers are pardoned because of some sob story. The killer I mentioned was let out on parole even though he had attacked prison guards during his incarceration. If the system worked, this scumbag never would have been granted parole.

Honestly, I agree with most of what you are saying. I am also uncomfortable with the State killing criminals and that act being a part of the political process. I just loathe that killers that commit heinous crimes are released and then prey again on innocent people.

I guess if our political system was reformed to punish the guilty and to keep violent criminals locked up, I would fully support abolishing the death penalty. Unfortunately, a soft on criminals attitude seems to go hand in hand with the movement to end the death penalty.

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