<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Stay in the Fight</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/</link>
	<description>The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State ...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:39:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11262</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11262</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment.   That&#039;s an interesting topic to bring up at the GBR in October.  Last year Bitter was doing endorsements for the board, and I mostly went with those, since she knows some of them personally.  Nonetheless, I&#039;ve never felt I was voting with enough information on hand as to exactly what a specific board members contribution would be on what their specific views are.

I do hope there&#039;s enough individual accountability on the board that Jackson is unable to win another term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment.   That&#8217;s an interesting topic to bring up at the GBR in October.  Last year Bitter was doing endorsements for the board, and I mostly went with those, since she knows some of them personally.  Nonetheless, I&#8217;ve never felt I was voting with enough information on hand as to exactly what a specific board members contribution would be on what their specific views are.</p>
<p>I do hope there&#8217;s enough individual accountability on the board that Jackson is unable to win another term.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Codrea</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11261</link>
		<dc:creator>David Codrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 13:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11261</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been accused of being an NRA basher, but in fact, I am a life member, and former members council officer and volunteer,  Golden Eagle, etc.  So, like the slogan goes, I AM the NRA, albeit admittedly in a minority.  My differences are not with NRA per se, but with certain actions and statements by some members of management and staff,  and I make no apologies for being vocal about them--especially since their voice and reach is so much louder and longer than mine.  The counterbalance is needed, even if the change to course is imperceptible--we never know if vocal dissent causes minor course corrections or not.

I agree that the &#039;extremists&#039; need to join NRA, not leave it, and also think that much of the complaining comes from people who, by not doing this, have sidelined themselves from being able to effect change.

I agree with you, Sebastian, that voting or not voting for NRA Directors is the best way to make this happen, but the problem is, there is no coordinated and systematic means for people not in &quot;the NRA establishment&quot; to do this--and I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve found that getting gun owners to agree to anything is like the proverbial herding of cats.  So we&#039;re left with situations where NRA posts its Nominating Committee recommendations, and we saw the way they discouraged the coalition put together by the late Neal Knox--so the LaPierre faction retains control.  And this is not to start the debate on whether they should or not, or what their track record is, or whether a more extreme approach would result in more or less progress with legislation--I&#039;m only examining the process for board change here.

How do we know who to vote for and who will be more &quot;hard core&quot;?  You can&#039;t just disqualify people because they&#039;ve been nominated by the  committee as you&#039;ll lose a few who are OK.  And you can&#039;t rely on published bios, because they&#039;re basically just advertisements.
 
I do use them--I just don&#039;t rely on them.  For instance, if all a candidate can say is he&#039;s an endowment member and he helped put in some hunting program, I figure we&#039;ve got more than our share of those already.

What I&#039;d like to see is some sort of rating system--just as NRA and GOA do with politicians.  But how would we know how to rate them?

I developed a questionnaire some time back, admittedly not acceptable to all, but it satisfies what I need to know--and I suspect what a few fellow &#039;extremists&#039; would like to know, too. Trouble is, I was the only one pushing it, so naturally it would not go anywhere.  When everyone in a race doesn&#039;t return your questionnaire, that kind&#039;a moots the point that they didn&#039;t respond.

Still, I believe the idea is valid.  I just don&#039;t think it would be effective to host it on my site, because again, I&#039;m tainted with the brush of being biased and having an axe to grind, plus, my reach is way too small.  However, if a coalition of bloggers and activists picked up this idea and formed a coalition to promote it,  it could turn it into a force to be reckoned within NRA elections.  

Ratings could then be given, although I&#039;d expect them--and the questions--to be challenged and competing alternatives to spring up--which I view as a good thing, new outlets for gun owner involvement...

Face it--if we can&#039;t even generate the clout to affect an NRA election, how can we expect to be effective on a larger political scale?  And until we do something in an organized fashion like this, future BOD elections will continue as they have, in effect impervious to dissatisfaction, with individual directors shielded from accountability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been accused of being an NRA basher, but in fact, I am a life member, and former members council officer and volunteer,  Golden Eagle, etc.  So, like the slogan goes, I AM the NRA, albeit admittedly in a minority.  My differences are not with NRA per se, but with certain actions and statements by some members of management and staff,  and I make no apologies for being vocal about them&#8211;especially since their voice and reach is so much louder and longer than mine.  The counterbalance is needed, even if the change to course is imperceptible&#8211;we never know if vocal dissent causes minor course corrections or not.</p>
<p>I agree that the &#8216;extremists&#8217; need to join NRA, not leave it, and also think that much of the complaining comes from people who, by not doing this, have sidelined themselves from being able to effect change.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Sebastian, that voting or not voting for NRA Directors is the best way to make this happen, but the problem is, there is no coordinated and systematic means for people not in &#8220;the NRA establishment&#8221; to do this&#8211;and I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve found that getting gun owners to agree to anything is like the proverbial herding of cats.  So we&#8217;re left with situations where NRA posts its Nominating Committee recommendations, and we saw the way they discouraged the coalition put together by the late Neal Knox&#8211;so the LaPierre faction retains control.  And this is not to start the debate on whether they should or not, or what their track record is, or whether a more extreme approach would result in more or less progress with legislation&#8211;I&#8217;m only examining the process for board change here.</p>
<p>How do we know who to vote for and who will be more &#8220;hard core&#8221;?  You can&#8217;t just disqualify people because they&#8217;ve been nominated by the  committee as you&#8217;ll lose a few who are OK.  And you can&#8217;t rely on published bios, because they&#8217;re basically just advertisements.</p>
<p>I do use them&#8211;I just don&#8217;t rely on them.  For instance, if all a candidate can say is he&#8217;s an endowment member and he helped put in some hunting program, I figure we&#8217;ve got more than our share of those already.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like to see is some sort of rating system&#8211;just as NRA and GOA do with politicians.  But how would we know how to rate them?</p>
<p>I developed a questionnaire some time back, admittedly not acceptable to all, but it satisfies what I need to know&#8211;and I suspect what a few fellow &#8216;extremists&#8217; would like to know, too. Trouble is, I was the only one pushing it, so naturally it would not go anywhere.  When everyone in a race doesn&#8217;t return your questionnaire, that kind&#8217;a moots the point that they didn&#8217;t respond.</p>
<p>Still, I believe the idea is valid.  I just don&#8217;t think it would be effective to host it on my site, because again, I&#8217;m tainted with the brush of being biased and having an axe to grind, plus, my reach is way too small.  However, if a coalition of bloggers and activists picked up this idea and formed a coalition to promote it,  it could turn it into a force to be reckoned within NRA elections.  </p>
<p>Ratings could then be given, although I&#8217;d expect them&#8211;and the questions&#8211;to be challenged and competing alternatives to spring up&#8211;which I view as a good thing, new outlets for gun owner involvement&#8230;</p>
<p>Face it&#8211;if we can&#8217;t even generate the clout to affect an NRA election, how can we expect to be effective on a larger political scale?  And until we do something in an organized fashion like this, future BOD elections will continue as they have, in effect impervious to dissatisfaction, with individual directors shielded from accountability.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11236</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11236</guid>
		<description>I agree Tarn, that we can&#039;t afford to have &quot;defenders of the second amendment&quot; saying such thing.

I already have a copy of &quot;In Search of the Second Amendment&quot;, though, and have met David Hardy on a few occasions.   If you&#039;d like to help promote the film, might I suggest going here &lt;a href=&quot;http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/09/promoting_2nd_a.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;to David&#039;s blog, where he&#039;s asking people to carry it on netflix, and get it in libraries.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Tarn, that we can&#8217;t afford to have &#8220;defenders of the second amendment&#8221; saying such thing.</p>
<p>I already have a copy of &#8220;In Search of the Second Amendment&#8221;, though, and have met David Hardy on a few occasions.   If you&#8217;d like to help promote the film, might I suggest going here <a href="http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2007/09/promoting_2nd_a.php" rel="nofollow">to David&#8217;s blog, where he&#8217;s asking people to carry it on netflix, and get it in libraries.</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tarn Helm</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11218</link>
		<dc:creator>Tarn Helm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11218</guid>
		<description>Joaquin Jackson is another Zumbo.

I never knew much about either until they recently jammed their boots in their mouths.

Now I know enough to make me like neither.

The Second Amendment cannot afford to have &quot;friends&quot; like Jackson and Zumbo.

The only way you could imagine Jackson and Zumbo to be friends of the Second Amendment is if you do not understand the &quot;original intent&quot; behind the Second Amendment.

If you consider yourself a friend of the Second Amendment, it is important for you to understand the &quot;original intent&quot; behind it.

Use a search engine to look up &quot;In Search of the Second Amendment.&quot;

It is a very recent scholarly documentary (not entertainment) by David T. Hardy, one of America&#039;s most respected Second Amendment scholars (quoted in Court decisions and in high level policy documents).

Neither Jackson nor Zumbo is a friend of the Second Amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joaquin Jackson is another Zumbo.</p>
<p>I never knew much about either until they recently jammed their boots in their mouths.</p>
<p>Now I know enough to make me like neither.</p>
<p>The Second Amendment cannot afford to have &#8220;friends&#8221; like Jackson and Zumbo.</p>
<p>The only way you could imagine Jackson and Zumbo to be friends of the Second Amendment is if you do not understand the &#8220;original intent&#8221; behind the Second Amendment.</p>
<p>If you consider yourself a friend of the Second Amendment, it is important for you to understand the &#8220;original intent&#8221; behind it.</p>
<p>Use a search engine to look up &#8220;In Search of the Second Amendment.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is a very recent scholarly documentary (not entertainment) by David T. Hardy, one of America&#8217;s most respected Second Amendment scholars (quoted in Court decisions and in high level policy documents).</p>
<p>Neither Jackson nor Zumbo is a friend of the Second Amendment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11171</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11171</guid>
		<description>To some degree a lot of that is just bureaucratic incompetence, which you&#039;re going to get with any organization of any appreciable size.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To some degree a lot of that is just bureaucratic incompetence, which you&#8217;re going to get with any organization of any appreciable size.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11170</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11170</guid>
		<description>Careful what you wish for ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Careful what you wish for ;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GeorgeH</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11166</link>
		<dc:creator>GeorgeH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11166</guid>
		<description>The wishy washy guys are already in charge, and the clueless.
It&#039;s a rare week when Bitter doesn&#039;t have a rant about something the NRA didn&#039;t get email or a press release out on until it was long over.

If Bitter will run for the board, I&#039;ll stay in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wishy washy guys are already in charge, and the clueless.<br />
It&#8217;s a rare week when Bitter doesn&#8217;t have a rant about something the NRA didn&#8217;t get email or a press release out on until it was long over.</p>
<p>If Bitter will run for the board, I&#8217;ll stay in.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11158</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11158</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The only way to deal with someone like Joacquin Jackson is to quit in large enough numbers to cause the rest of the board to shame him into resigning and apologizing.&lt;/i&gt;

Except if you do that, you leave the wishy washy guys in charge, which weakens NRA, and suddenly you have more gun control to deal with.  I really think the only way to affect change in NRA is from within.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The only way to deal with someone like Joacquin Jackson is to quit in large enough numbers to cause the rest of the board to shame him into resigning and apologizing.</i></p>
<p>Except if you do that, you leave the wishy washy guys in charge, which weakens NRA, and suddenly you have more gun control to deal with.  I really think the only way to affect change in NRA is from within.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GeorgeH</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11148</link>
		<dc:creator>GeorgeH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11148</guid>
		<description>&quot;I hear that a lot GeorgeH, but NRA didn’t even have a lobbying arm until 1975, when they founded ILA.&quot;

Because the tax laws didn&#039;t require them to have a separate lobbying arm until then. They always had a heavy lobbying presence. They just decided it was easier to give in on anything that most members didn&#039;t care about.

The only way to deal with someone like Joacquin Jackson is to quit in large enough numbers to cause the rest of the board to shame him into resigning and apologizing. 
He&#039;d probably fit right in at one of the phony law enforcement groups allied to the Brady Campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I hear that a lot GeorgeH, but NRA didn’t even have a lobbying arm until 1975, when they founded ILA.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because the tax laws didn&#8217;t require them to have a separate lobbying arm until then. They always had a heavy lobbying presence. They just decided it was easier to give in on anything that most members didn&#8217;t care about.</p>
<p>The only way to deal with someone like Joacquin Jackson is to quit in large enough numbers to cause the rest of the board to shame him into resigning and apologizing.<br />
He&#8217;d probably fit right in at one of the phony law enforcement groups allied to the Brady Campaign.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian</title>
		<link>http://www.pagunblog.com/2007/09/07/stay-in-the-fight/#comment-11147</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/?p=1495#comment-11147</guid>
		<description>I should note that I&#039;m a realistic extremist :)   There&#039;s no way we&#039;re going to get rid of all gun control.   The vast majority of federal gun control is here to stay.   I&#039;d be tickled pink if we could accomplish only repealing the Hughes Amendment, or getting the importations restrictions in GCA 68 removed.

Repealing the Brady Act - not going to happen in my lifetime
Repealing all of GCA 68 - not going to happen in my lifetime
Repealing all of NFA - not going to happen in my lifetime

We have to focus on what&#039;s achievable right now, and work toward it.  We&#039;ll burn the other bridges when we come to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should note that I&#8217;m a realistic extremist :)   There&#8217;s no way we&#8217;re going to get rid of all gun control.   The vast majority of federal gun control is here to stay.   I&#8217;d be tickled pink if we could accomplish only repealing the Hughes Amendment, or getting the importations restrictions in GCA 68 removed.</p>
<p>Repealing the Brady Act &#8211; not going to happen in my lifetime<br />
Repealing all of GCA 68 &#8211; not going to happen in my lifetime<br />
Repealing all of NFA &#8211; not going to happen in my lifetime</p>
<p>We have to focus on what&#8217;s achievable right now, and work toward it.  We&#8217;ll burn the other bridges when we come to them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

